Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[Deleted member 28]

My German farm help has just received settled status, she wouldn't have had to apply to do this previously.

Possibly wouldn't have come here at all, under the current system
That would have been a great loss to me, and our community.


The farm union I'm part of no longer gets EU help with education, and travel for union work.

My son was hoping to go and live / work in Lisbon - but now cannot - as he no longer qualifies to stay there long term.

Lisbon's loss, is Glasgow's gain, perhaps ..
But still..

I've got friends in university departments who have lost funding for collaborative projects with other EU universities.

Also students from abroad who were going to study here, at their universities are no longer coming from EU, due to red tape and in part due the sense of hostility towards 'foreigners' that has been at play since brexit. .

EFL language schools in this area have seen a drop in business, since the paperwork to get students here has become far more difficult.

There's plenty more but I'm not really sure you're that interested anyway, or you will say that none of this is very important , because it doesn't affect you and your little Englander view of the world.

So why doesn't your Son qualify now and why is the red tape too much trouble if people really want to do something, I've never said things haven't been made more difficult and probably is pointless but can it still be done?

 

[mudsticks]

I think that's the long and short of it for most people who voted leave. I doubt many leave voters are that concerned about their kids having opportunities in the EU, or missing out on scientific research. As long as their holiday in Benidorm is unaffected (which as I gather from my colleague is still nice and easy, and cheap). If there's any good news, I'm fairly sure the last 2 years of shoot-show will at least open some people's eyes as to what the Tories are capable of and what their priorities are

The thing is that kids from backgrounds where the idea of going to live /work/ study abroad, is already in their homelife, may well be able to find a way .

They or their parents will be plugged into networks that can facilitate it, there may be motivation to tackle the beureacracy, or spare cash to help with it.

As ever it's the ones from the most deprived situations that will have had their options limited.

The teacher who may have encouraged a student from a harder background, to try a year abroad will now probably realise it's just too difficult to set up, too much to expect of their family, so may not even bring up the idea .

We're all poorer for it, everyone has had their horizons limited, fewer bright ones are coming here from elsewhere .

And still..

What did we get as compensation for this loss??

Nothing, at all 😕

 

[mudsticks]

So why doesn't your Son qualify now and why is the red tape too much trouble if people really want to do something, I've never said things haven't been made more difficult and probably is pointless but can it still be done?

He doesn't have qualifications that would land him a lucrative enough job.

Nor unsurprisingly enough 'private' income to sustain himself - the threshold for that is very high.

Previously he could have moved to Lisbon, lived and worked there as easily as he has to Glasgow.

Now he would be limited to a three month stay.

 

[Deleted member 28]

He doesn't have qualifications that would land him a lucrative enough job.

Nor unsurprisingly enough 'private' income to sustain himself - the threshold for that is very high.

Previously he could have moved to Lisbon, lived and worked there as easily as he has to Glasgow.

Now he would be limited to a three month stay.

So he wasn't going there to study, just get some bar job and see how he got on?

Times change it seems.

 

[BoldonLad]

So he wasn't going there to study, just get some bar job and see how he got on?

Times change it seems.

I never thought this day would come @shep, I am about to support @mudsticks view, against yours, as much as I your down to earth humour may appeal to my sense of humour.

What has happened here is that people of all ages have lost the freedom to just go and study/work/holiday/skive/whatever, over an enormous area of mainland Europe, just as easily as they could formerly (and still can) decide to decamp to any part of the UK. For oldies, like me, the impact is possibly minimal, I have to limit my wintering in Southern Europe to 90 days (or, mess about getting a visa), where-as, before, I could just go, without a care in the world, and, stay as long as I liked. The impact for young people (my children, grandchildren) is much more significant. Their "pond" for freely roaming, with no paperwork (beyond a passport) required, has shrunk, from the whole of the EU, to our little island. Personally, I don't think it terribly relevant if their plan was to study Nuclear Physics, work in a bar, or, sit on the beach.

The above is only some of what we have lost, to an extent, you could even say, just the fun things, but, we can no longer export of our products (without additional paperwork and costs), we can no longer buy products and services from the EU, except by incurring additional costs and paperwork.

It doesn't really matter if the "red-tape" is minimal, or, costs very little (both of which I doubt), no matter how minimal it is, it is not as minimal as before Brexit (which was none, no red-tape, ie, my pre-journey planning for a trip to Barcelona, in our motorhome, required no increase in preparation or paper-work than a trip to Birmingham).

All of the above could, perhaps, be regarded as acceptable, if we had actually GAINED some advantages, but, so far at least, a dark blue passport instead of a burgundy one (which I think we could have had anyway), somehow does not quite seem like a bargain, to me.

As for the "Control of our Borders" crap (which, to be fair was never a major thing to me personally anyway), I think the new wave of wealthy people smugglers tells us who has control of what, we may as well just put a free ferry crossing on and save the south coast being littered with discarded rubber boats.

 

[mudsticks]

So he wasn't going there to study, just get some bar job and see how he got on?

Times change it seems.

Of course he was going to study..

He wasnt going to get far without learning Portuguese, and immersing himself in the culture, and making new discoveries everyday.

Who knows where he may have ended up, maybe first a bar job, leading to all sorts of connections, work possibilities and adventures.


Just like we had the chance of, for free.

Your idea of learning, study, cultural exchange seem very limited.

But not everyone wants to stay in their home town forever, there's nothing wrong with that, but imagine how stultifying if everyone did..

Just sat around in their local til they're all old and boring, and stuck in their ways.

Yes times have changed, for the worse in this instance after brexit.

Especially around prospects for our economy, travel, learning, and broadening of minds for our youngsters .


But I guess you wouldn't be bothered because maybe it's not something your kids would ever want to do, so why would you care right,??

Meanwhile the lives, and opportunities of all our youth have been deliberately limited by brexit.

In return for what??

A big fat nothing..

 

[Mugshot]

Have you?


I thought you could still visit, work and live in Europe but had to conform with each countries individual rules?

Not so easy now admittedly but still possible.

You do realise that when they said they were ending FOM they meant ours, not the EUs don't you?

 

[Deleted member 28]

You do realise that when they said they were ending FOM they meant ours, not the EUs don't you?

Thought it meant both?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Of course he was going to study..

He wasnt going to get far without learning Portuguese, and immersing himself in the culture, and making new discoveries everyday.

Who knows where he may have ended up, maybe first a bar job, leading to all sorts of connections, work possibilities and adventures.


Just like we had the chance of, for free.

Your idea of learning, study, cultural exchange seem very limited.

But not everyone wants to stay in their home town forever, there's nothing wrong with that, but imagine how stultifying if everyone did..

Just sat around in their local til they're all old and boring, and stuck in their ways.

Yes times have changed, for the worse in this instance after brexit.

Especially around prospects for our economy, travel, learning, and broadening of minds for our youngsters .


But I guess you wouldn't be bothered because maybe it's not something your kids would ever want to do, so why would you care right,??

Meanwhile the lives, and opportunities of all our youth have been deliberately limited by brexit.

In return for what??

A big fat nothing..

So yes then,

Get a bar job, pick up the lingo and generally just doss around Europe?

If however genuine study was on the cards then simply applying for the appropriate visa would be the route taken.

Genuine opportunities using the correct channels are still available as you know its just that 'turning up without a pot to p*ss In' and hoping to wing it is now more difficult.

 

[Electric_Andy]

Genuine opportunities using the correct channels are still available as you know its just that 'turning up without a pot to p*ss In' and hoping to wing it is now more difficult.

Funny, I was just looking at visa requirements for us (now non-EU) members for places like Germany. It's pretty much the same as for Australia, NZ, Canada. Basically they'll let you in if you can prove you have a job (a sponsor), or are trained in something on their skills shortage list, or you have a portfolio of over a million quid, or you just want to work and travel for a year and are under 30. You get a visa so they can throw you out when it expires if you can't prove you're a worthwhile addition to the country. Sounds fair enough to me.

Has anyone ever wondered why countries like Aus and NZ have such measures? It's becasue they don't want every man and his uncle contributing to a population explosion and then finding out they can't get a job and claiming benefits. Yes we had free movement in the EU which was a privilege, and that has been taken away. But anyone who is serious about work or study can still do that. I think it's a bit dramatic to say:

As ever it's the ones from the most deprived situations that will have had their options limited

I think this is a travesty very personal to you becasue you want your son to go to EU countries for free and with limited hassle. It's understandable. I travelled a lot, worked abroad a lot, but never in mainland Europe, but I don't class that as having my options one tiny bit. Just because I didn't fancy Europe, doesn't mean I didn't have aspirations.


Not to sound rude but

Your idea of learning, study, cultural exchange seem very limited.

this sounds a bit snobby, to suggest someone is limited in their ideas just becasue they don't match to your own.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Funny, I was just looking at visa requirements for us (now non-EU) members for places like Germany. It's pretty much the same as for Australia, NZ, Canada. Basically they'll let you in if you can prove you have a job (a sponsor), or are trained in something on their skills shortage list, or you have a portfolio of over a million quid, or you just want to work and travel for a year and are under 30. You get a visa so they can throw you out when it expires if you can't prove you're a worthwhile addition to the country. Sounds fair enough to me.

Has anyone ever wondered why countries like Aus and NZ have such measures? It's becasue they don't want every man and his uncle contributing to a population explosion and then finding out they can't get a job and claiming benefits. Yes we had free movement in the EU which was a privilege, and that has been taken away. But anyone who is serious about work or study can still do that. I think it's a bit dramatic to say:

I think this is a travesty very personal to you becasue you want your son to go to EU countries for free and with limited hassle. It's understandable. I travelled a lot, worked abroad a lot, but never in mainland Europe, but I don't class that as having my options one tiny bit. Just because I didn't fancy Europe, doesn't mean I didn't have aspirations.


Not to sound rude but

this sounds a bit snobby, to suggest someone is limited in their ideas just becasue they don't match to your own.

So you still can work and travel for up to a year then?

 

[mudsticks]

Funny, I was just looking at visa requirements for us (now non-EU) members for places like Germany. It's pretty much the same as for Australia, NZ, Canada. Basically they'll let you in if you can prove you have a job (a sponsor), or are trained in something on their skills shortage list, or you have a portfolio of over a million quid, or you just want to work and travel for a year and are under 30. You get a visa so they can throw you out when it expires if you can't prove you're a worthwhile addition to the country. Sounds fair enough to me.

Has anyone ever wondered why countries like Aus and NZ have such measures? It's becasue they don't want every man and his uncle contributing to a population explosion and then finding out they can't get a job and claiming benefits. Yes we had free movement in the EU which was a privilege, and that has been taken away. But anyone who is serious about work or study can still do that. I think it's a bit dramatic to say:

I think this is a travesty very personal to you becasue you want your son to go to EU countries for free and with limited hassle. It's understandable. I travelled a lot, worked abroad a lot, but never in mainland Europe, but I don't class that as having my options one tiny bit. Just because I didn't fancy Europe, doesn't mean I didn't have aspirations.


Not to sound rude but

this sounds a bit snobby, to suggest someone is limited in their ideas just becasue they don't match to your own.

Well you've completely misunderstood, and misrepresented what I've said regarding my own child then.
I'm guessing you meant 'tragedy' rather than travesty..

It's neither, it's just a really big loss to our kids.

And there was absolutely no need to do it.

My kid is just one of thousands who has lost out, and gained nothing, from our leaving the EU.

And yes those with already limited resources will be at even more of a disadvantage now, that's how it works.

FOM in Europe was largely set up to encourage , and facilitate inter country economic and cultural exchange, and it did that.

I don't see know why it's 'snobby' to suggest that its limiting to confine your ideas of 'education' to formal education only.

If anything, suggesting that formal education is the only sort worth bothering with, is the stuck up attitude.

So yes actually you do sound rude, to accuse me of that .

Like yourself, I too have travelled and worked outside the EU.

That's neither here nor there to what the current younger generation have lost through our brexitting though ..

 

[mudsticks]

So yes then,

Get a bar job, pick up the lingo and generally just doss around Europe?

If however genuine study was on the cards then simply applying for the appropriate visa would be the route taken.

Genuine opportunities using the correct channels are still available as you know its just that 'turning up without a pot to p*ss In' and hoping to wing it is now more difficult.

Careful EA will accuse you of sounding 'snobby' using language like 'just doss around Europe' ...

Which incidentally wasn't what I said, but hey ho, why not just make some shoot up.

You clearly don't care what's been lost for this whole generation, and lost for no good reason.

No point labouring it is there.

 

[Deleted member 28]

So can he get a 12month visa and work in Portugal or not, just like before?

Just going on what someone has posted.

Simple yes or no will do.

 

[mudsticks]

So can he get a 12month visa and work in Portugal or not, just like before?

Just going on what someone has posted.

Simple yes or no will do.

No, not like before, no visa was required, no time limit either.

And now you can tell us what anyone has gained by this..

Or if you prefer..






Has anyone gained anything??

Simple yes or no will do..

Although what that 'gain' actually is would be 'interesting'