Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped
- Thread starter mudsticks
- Start date
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C R
Über Member
FTFY
Rusty Nails
Country Member
You say "yeah I know" as if you don't really believe it.
Those EU grants and projects were requested and justified by people, organisations and bureaucrats in this country, rather than by benefactors in the EU randomly deciding to be magnanimous and, rightly or wrongly, people believed the stories, or should I say narrative, that that money was the money we paid in in contributions to the EU budget and that our government would/should do continue to do the right thing for their communities after Brexit with that money.
That they were wrong is becoming more obvious and highlights even more the poor performance of the Remain political camps, and the superiority (sic) of the 'narrative' pushed by Brexiters.
Disaffected groups tend to want change rather than more of the same and they were promised change.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
OP
OP
mudsticks
Squire
Thanks yes I know how EU projects supporting less favoured areas.were bid for, and came about.
The 'remain' campaign was unsuccessful, to a large degree, because it told the actual truth.
The complicated, nuanced and "Yes all this is less than 100% satisfactory, but it's our least worst option" truth.
Retaining the status quo, wasn't perfect, but still better than the alternative.
Whereas 'Leave" was mainly.based on outright lies, and misinformation, with no little amount of xenophobia, and exceptionalistic flag shagging thrown in.
Aided of course by a whole phalynx of Russian bots, and no prizes for guessing why they favoured what they saw as a weakened EU.
matticus
Guru
Nice map! ;-)
multitool
Pharaoh
Ah yes, the notoriously poor south-east of England, and the sumptuously rich Northern Ireland.
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
Aren't immigrants good then?
D
Deleted member 28
Guest
We haven't got enough by all accounts!
Rusty Nails
Country Member
So we won the moral argument, but lost the practical one. The high ground can be quite a cold place to be left. That is why I deliberately put (sic) after describing the superiority of the Leave arguments.
Like it or not this country is quite conservative in its attitudes and "flag-shagging" is not seen by everyone in the negative, patronising way it is often used. Politicians the world over use it as a tactic.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
That's been debated in Wales for a long time. We've been trying to send @theclaud back to England for years
OP
OP
mudsticks
Squire
I'd disagree that 'this country' (or the collection of countries that makes up the UK) is inherently particularly 'conservative'
Not small c conservative anyhow.
Otw in my lifetime it's generally felt pretty tolerant, open minded, and welcoming to change and progress, compared at least to many other nations.
But the populist brexit campaign played up to a nasty streak of nationalism dressed up as 'patriotism.
Which yes is what many other politicians do.
And somehow they convinced many that 'Jonny Forriner' was the source of their various woes..
That we'd be 'better off' on our own, and that somehow we were going to 'beat the rest of the world' at anything and everything.
Rather than accept that we are just one of many European countries who do better when they work, and trade, and play nicely together.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Strangely enough even the regions and Celtic countries can be divided into smaller differing constituencies rather than one amorphous area.
Do you not think that chart, which is a summary of the actual votes of 33 million people, shows an accurate picture of the spread of votes across the UK?
Read the JRF survey in the report you highlighted, which summarises the reasons for the vote as poverty, education levels (which can indirectly be linked to poverty levels), and left-behind communities. In fact the key findings of the article were:
Key findings:
- The poorest households, with incomes of less than £20,000 per year, were much more likely to support leaving the EU than the wealthiest households, as were the unemployed, people in low-skilled and manual occupations, people who feel that their financial situation has worsened, and those with no qualifications.
- Groups vulnerable to poverty were more likely to support Brexit. Age, income and education matter, though it is educational inequality that was the strongest driver. Other things being equal, support for leave was 30 percentage points higher among those with GCSE qualifications or below than it was for people with a degree. In contrast, support for leave was just 10 points higher among those on less than £20,000 per year than it was among those with incomes of more than £60,000 per year, and 20 points higher among those aged 65 than those aged 25.
- Support for Brexit varied not only between individuals but also between areas. People with all levels of qualifications were more likely to vote leave in low-skill areas compared with high-skill areas. However, this effect was stronger for the more highly qualified. In low-skilled communities the difference in support for leave between graduates and those with GCSEs was 20 points. In high-skilled communities it was over 40 points. In low-skill areas the proportion of A-level holders voting leave was closer to that of people with low-skills. In high-skill areas their vote was much more similar to graduates.
- Groups in Britain who have been ‘left behind’ by rapid economic change and feel cut adrift from the mainstream consensus were the most likely to support Brexit. These voters face a ‘double whammy’. While their lack of qualifications put them at a significant disadvantage in the modern economy, they are also being further marginalised in society by the lack of opportunities that faced in their low-skilled communities. This will make it extremely difficult for the left behind to adapt and prosper in future.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Strangely enough even nice people can be conservative. To my mind that does not as much mean intolerant to change as looking before they leap.
I have always felt we are as tolerant and welcoming as most countries, and more so than some.
Like other countries, including those in the EU, we have xenophobia, racism and nationalism but the "success" of the Brexit campaign showed they were more effective at appealing to those elements than the Remain were in appealing to what I believe is the silent majority. It may have been complacency on the part of the Remain camp and if so was a huge mistake.
