Starmer's vision quest

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stowie

Active Member
Windfall tax for the likes of BP and Shell.

Not much 'struggling' going on there..

An argument for a windfall tax not involving the obvious issues around energy poverty was given somewhere (I cannot remember where, but this is not my theory). It sort of went like this.

Although oil and gas is enormously important to the world economy today, the direction of travel is clear. Unless we decide to let climate change let rip and enjoy the ride, oil and gas won't dominate energy production in the same way in the future. Even now renewable cost can beat fossil fuel, it is the infrastructure that costs big (as did the oil and gas infrastructure before it).

In this climate - and bearing in mind the fossil industry took a big shock during COVID with negative futures etc. - it doesn't really make much sense for BP and Shell to be pouring vast amounts of investment money into oil and gas to see prices reduce in a diminishing long term market. In the past when demand could be assumed to be an ever upwards curve then investing heavily made sense. Not so much now. The supply side of the fossil fuel equation is pretty happy with things as they are. Rent extraction is the name of the game.

What about risking that BP and Shell investment in renewables? Well, GM and Ford didn't spearhead the seismic changes we are seeing in the car industry, that was - in large part - Tesla, a company that a decade ago was barely known. Incumbents rarely instigate revolutionary change. That profit might be better invested in companies and technologies not intimately tied to the status quo.

As I say, it wasn't an argument I thought up and it was far better presented with graphs of production trends and historic OPEC information but I think the above is an approximation of the gist.
 

mudsticks

Squire
An argument for a windfall tax not involving the obvious issues around energy poverty was given somewhere (I cannot remember where, but this is not my theory). It sort of went like this.

Although oil and gas is enormously important to the world economy today, the direction of travel is clear. Unless we decide to let climate change let rip and enjoy the ride, oil and gas won't dominate energy production in the same way in the future. Even now renewable cost can beat fossil fuel, it is the infrastructure that costs big (as did the oil and gas infrastructure before it).

In this climate - and bearing in mind the fossil industry took a big shock during COVID with negative futures etc. - it doesn't really make much sense for BP and Shell to be pouring vast amounts of investment money into oil and gas to see prices reduce in a diminishing long term market. In the past when demand could be assumed to be an ever upwards curve then investing heavily made sense. Not so much now. The supply side of the fossil fuel equation is pretty happy with things as they are. Rent extraction is the name of the game.

What about risking that BP and Shell investment in renewables? Well, GM and Ford didn't spearhead the seismic changes we are seeing in the car industry, that was - in large part - Tesla, a company that a decade ago was barely known. Incumbents rarely instigate revolutionary change. That profit might be better invested in companies and technologies not intimately tied to the status quo.

As I say, it wasn't an argument I thought up and it was far better presented with graphs of production trends and historic OPEC information but I think the above is an approximation of the gist.
if the gist is - don't trust the 'Energy giants' with spearheading renewables then i'd agree.

Instead a Windfall tax on Energy Giants which is then used to bring cheaper renewables ( and home insulation ) to communities, stimulating sustainable job creation in less favoured areas, and tackling climate change at the same time...

This is what should have happened after the heavy industries were dismantled in the 80's and 90's imo - investment into those already highly skilled workforces to take renewable tech forward - and quickly.

Instead all that energy and talent wasted - communities destroyed - climate change ignored.
 
I posted this originally in the wrong thread. Apologies.

Ok Labour Peeps. Can you answer this.

Two councils in Scotland have done deals between Labour and the Tories. South Lanarkshire, which voted majority SNP, now have Labour back in charge after they did a deal with the Tories.

Moray Council have their minority Tory administration back in charge, again despite the majority of the public votes beng for SNP (as in S Lanarkshire) because they did a deal with Labour.

Whose side are Labour on? They're happy to deal with a bunch of ultra right wing BJ supporters just to get their hands on power. Doesn't bode well for the next GE and Labour wonder why they've lost Scotland?
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
I was being sarcastic, as usual.
I'd have been worried if you weren't lol
 

theclaud

Reading around the chip
Apparently, Starmer is taking electoral advice about Scotland from *checks notes* Labour's 2015 election team.

Of course, I regard the suggestion, not uncommon in the bitterest corners of Left Twitter and suchlike, that Starmer is an actual Tory plant as so much conspiracy nonsense, but it's not difficult to see how this stuff takes hold. I mean, if the so-called grown-ups in charge are this bad at opposition, what does it matter if it's by incompetence, ideology, or because they have been replaced by space lizards?
 

theclaud

Reading around the chip
We've farked up big-time in Scotland, lads! We need big ideas. Let's call in, er... Douglas Alexander, who was chair of general election strategy in 2015 and lost his seat to the SNP.
 

Mugshot

Über Member
Apparently, Starmer is taking electoral advice about Scotland from *checks notes* Labour's 2015 election team.

Of course, I regard the suggestion, not uncommon in the bitterest corners of Left Twitter and suchlike, that Starmer is an actual Tory plant as so much conspiracy nonsense, but it's not difficult to see how this stuff takes hold. I mean, if the so-called grown-ups in charge are this bad at opposition, what does it matter if it's by incompetence, ideology, or because they have been replaced by space lizards?
We've farked up big-time in Scotland, lads! We need big ideas. Let's call in, er... Douglas Alexander, who was chair of general election strategy in 2015 and lost his seat to the SNP.

Maybe Alexander was an SNP plant.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Apparently, Starmer is taking electoral advice about Scotland from *checks notes* Labour's 2015 election team.

Of course, I regard the suggestion, not uncommon in the bitterest corners of Left Twitter and suchlike, that Starmer is an actual Tory plant as so much conspiracy nonsense, but it's not difficult to see how this stuff takes hold. I mean, if the so-called grown-ups in charge are this bad at opposition, what does it matter if it's by incompetence, ideology, or because they have been replaced by space lizards?
Not a Tory plant as such....but there's little to fear as far as I can see ?
I mean I seem to remember....
Starmer, running to be leader: "We should treat the 2017 manifesto as our foundational document... we have to hang on to that as we go forward"
As far as I can tell that was total bullshit.
 
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