Starmer's vision quest

[Deleted member 49]

I don't doubt there's good work going on. Am in favour of Unions. But even taking what Claudine states into account, I don't believe that we (the average Joe) don't hear more about Unions standing-up and fighting the shoot going-on at a local and national level.
The P&O situation was very local, but don't recall hearing much Union fightbacks or actions. I may have my head in the clouds, but I try to keep my eyes and ears open.

Maybe they need a Comms strategy that works, I don't know....

Theres loads ! It's just not that interesting to the right wing media....unless there is a angle to it for them.Why do you think strikes are more than usually portrayed as bad ?

 

[mudsticks]

I don't doubt there's good work going on. Am in favour of Unions. But even taking what Claudine states into account, I don't believe that we (the average Joe) don't hear more about Unions standing-up and fighting the shoot going-on at a local and national level.
The P&O situation was very local, but don't recall hearing much Union fightbacks or actions. I may have my head in the clouds, but I try to keep my eyes and ears open.

Maybe they need a Comms strategy that works, I don't know....

A Comms strategy that works relies to a large extent on a public that gives a shoot

We hear over and over how people 'arent interested in politics*'
And let's face it the minutiae of industrial disputes are just the dullest ..

It doesn't sell newspapers, especially not ones owned by capitalists .

*To the point that we even had to be hived off of the main forum for talking about such 'awkward' stuff .

Tories, and anti unionists just love political apathy , and "Oh all politicians , they're all the same" attitudes.

Most newspapers these days want the Tories in, for ever, it suits them well..


And lefty woke unionist sorts to bugger off and leave them to their greed, and individualism

 

[Fab Foodie]

A Comms strategy that works relies to a large extent on a public that gives a shoot

We hear over and over how people 'arent interested in politics*'
And let's face it the minutiae of industrial disputes are just the dullest ..

It doesn't sell newspapers, especially not ones owned by capitalists .

*To the point that we even had to be hived off of the main forum for talking about such 'awkward' stuff .

Tories, and anti unionists just love political apathy , and "Oh all politicians , they're all the same" attitudes.

Most newspapers these days want the Tories in, for ever, it suits them well..


And lefty woke unionist sorts to bugger off and leave them to their greed, and individualism

And to think this is the country of the Tolpuddle Martyrs, Jarrow Marches, Wollstonecraft and Pankhurst....

 

[mudsticks]

And to think this is the country of the Tolpuddle Martyrs, Jarrow Marches, Wollstonecraft and Pankhurst....

People generally have short memories, are uninterested in social history, and are complacent.

They take our hard won (by others) rights for granted.

Also if we talk about overcoming the oppression of workers, and the disadvantaged in this country

Then we have to acknowledge the oppression that we have done, and continue to to do overseas...

We have to face up to awkward, uncomfortable truths.

We also have to take, or at least support the taking of action, if our consciences are to be comfortable, once we face up to reality..

All this is, for most people, much harder work that denying those truths, and reality, so I guess that denial and ignorance is the choice a lot of people make ..

 

[Deleted member 28]

Have to say I'm finding it a tiny bit hilarious that one of our staunch Tory (and brexiteers) is hoping his union -
-those organisations pretty much universally loathed and suppressed by capitalist promoting Tories -
- is still expecting his union will help with wage negotiations..



You reap* what you sow..

Not I perchance?

We had a £1500 annual pay rise across the board but the Union (CWU) is still 'up in arms' over it and seeking a ballot for Industrial action, hence my comment.

I'm personally quite pleased with the pay rise, although way below inflation, as times are hard for all business so your assumption I'm 'expecting' anything is way off the mark.

Clearly if there's another Tory voting Brexiteer on this forum commenting on Union activity and it's not me you're referring to then ignore this post.

 

[Fab Foodie]

People generally have short memories, are uninterested in social history, and are complacent.

They take our hard won (by others) rights for granted.

Also if we talk about overcoming the oppression of workers, and the disadvantaged in this country

Then we have to acknowledge the oppression that we have done, and continue to to do overseas...

We have to face up to awkward, uncomfortable truths.

We also have to take, or at least support the taking of action, if our consciences are to be comfortable, once we face up to reality..

All this is, for most people, much harder work that denying those truths, and reality, so I guess that denial and ignorance is the choice a lot of people make ..

I may not be making myself very clear, apols.
My point is that there are alternative means of communication and ways to get people fired-up about issues even when 'mainstream' channels are closed, the above found ways to be heard.

One thing Corbyn was good at was soapboxing, townhalling.
Protests, marches etc. are all good ways of firing-up people for a cause. I see none of that from Labour and none of it from the Unions... Of course as mentioned upthread, the media may not be interested (I understand, but don't buy fully by into that argument), but if the momentum builds they will be noticed.
Union leaders used to firebrands, household names, the media gave them plenty of airtime. I have no idea who leads what these days.

There has never been a better time since Thatcher, to enable and mobilise the disaffected, but if Labour and the Unions don't get to them, the right surely will. The one thing the media love is a fracas to report on....

 

[Deleted member 49]

One thing Corbyn was good at was soapboxing, townhalling.
Protests, marches etc. are all good ways of firing-up people for a cause.

Maybe that was because it wasn't a blag....he believes in what he was trying to achieve.One of the few currant politicians I admire.But look where that got him,one of the most ruthless smear campaigns we've seen.

I see none of that from Labour and none of it from the Unions...now...of course as mentioned upthread the media may not be interested (I understand, but don't buy fully by into it), but if the momentum builds they will be noticed. Union leaders used to firebrands, household names, the media gave them plenty of airtime. I have no idea who leads what these days.

You'll see none of that under Starmer or a centrist goverment thats for sure.Theyve done there fair share of alienating themselves from the unions allready
I remember Bob Crow,great leader for the RMT and motivational speaker who fought hard for his union and workers.I also remember all the shite that goes with it...bringing the country to a standstill,tube drivers paid to much,feck he was vilified for living in a council house lol..
If your inrerested in Unions it's for you to seek out,I've paid in all my life.I think that's what they want you to think,they don't work for you,who are they helping,where are they ? It's not only for yourself but those who are coming after you.There worth there wait in gold as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mudsticks]

Not I perchance?

We had a £1500 annual pay rise across the board but the Union (CWU) is still 'up in arms' over it and seeking a ballot for Industrial action, hence my comment.

I'm personally quite pleased with the pay rise, although way below inflation, as times are hard for all business so your assumption I'm 'expecting' anything is way off the mark.

Clearly if there's another Tory voting Brexiteer on this forum commenting on Union activity and it's not me you're referring to then ignore this post.

It's ok I ignore most of what you say .

Not sure if it was yourself or not really.

All you Tory brexiteers sound the same to me nowadays.

Great that your Union did live up to your expectations, well done them, hope it's good enough for everyone else who is struggling right now, eh,,??
.
I don't suppose you'd be a member of a Union if you had no expectations, otherwise what would be the point.??

Yes times are hard for a lot of businesses at the moment.
And will continue to be into the future.

Brexit has really done for a lot of them.

But I expect you'll be OK even in an economic downturn, with your paid for mortgage, and nice solid pension coming soon.

So why worry about anyone else who's is coming after.
That's their problem really.

I may not be making myself very clear, apols.
My point is that there are alternative means of communication and ways to get people fired-up about issues even when 'mainstream' channels are closed, the above found ways to be heard.

One thing Corbyn was good at was soapboxing, townhalling.
Protests, marches etc. are all good ways of firing-up people for a cause. I see none of that from Labour and none of it from the Unions... Of course as mentioned upthread, the media may not be interested (I understand, but don't buy fully by into that argument), but if the momentum builds they will be noticed.
Union leaders used to firebrands, household names, the media gave them plenty of airtime. I have no idea who leads what these days.

There has never been a better time since Thatcher, to enable and mobilise the disaffected, but if Labour and the Unions don't get to them, the right surely will. The one thing the media love is a fracas to report on....

Oh there's still lots of grassroot mobilising going on, but the MSM doesn't report much.

Or not with any positivity.


Just as they don't report the (soon to be limited) protests about other stuff.


Unless there is ''trouble' of course..

And the rightwing.media do so like to paint us as unwashed, jobless, ner'dowells - even as we campaign, and protest on boring old stuff like workers rights, social justice, women's rights, climate change.

But on social media the youth, and the older engaged, are very much in evidence, if you follow the right accounts, know where to look.

Yes social media means action, and awareness is somewhat atomised, but rest assured, there's still lots going on.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Coincidentally I just read this...
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/firefighters-union-to-vote-on-cutting-ties-with-labour
What's the point of the Labour party if they can't at least inspire Unions.

 

[Deleted member 28]

It's ok I ignore most of what you say .

Not sure if it was yourself or not really.

All you Tory brexiteers sound the same to me nowadays.

Great that your Union did live up to your expectations, well done them, hope it's good enough for everyone else who is struggling right now, eh,,??
.
I don't suppose you'd be a member of a Union if you had no expectations, otherwise what would be the point.??

Yes times are hard for a lot of businesses at the moment.
And will continue to be into the future.

Brexit has really done for a lot of them.

But I expect you'll be OK even in an economic downturn, with your paid for mortgage, and nice solid pension coming soon.

So why worry about anyone else who's is coming after.
That's their problem really.



Oh there's still lots of grassroot mobilising going on, but the MSM doesn't report much.

Or not with any positivity.


Just as they don't report the (soon to be limited) protests about other stuff.


Unless there is ''trouble' of course..

And the rightwing.media do so like to paint us as unwashed, jobless, ner'dowells - even as we campaign, and protest on boring old stuff like workers rights, social justice, women's rights, climate change.

But on social media the youth, and the older engaged, are very much in evidence, if you follow the right accounts, know where to look.

Yes social media means action, and awareness is somewhat atomised, but rest assured, there's still lots going on.

You really have got a lot of issues haven't you.

According to you your equally OK and will be no less alright than me, I assume as an employer you can pay a really good wage and look after 'those coming after' for us.

As for paid off mortgages and pensions they're not free you know and there's plenty on here in equal or better positions than me that seems to be acceptable to you?

Old bicycle repair man happily informs us of a pension that pays him 'just below the higher tax rate' yet he meets with your approval.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I'm personally quite pleased with the pay rise, although way below inflation, as times are hard for all business so your assumption I'm 'expecting' anything is way off the mark.

When you say all business are struggling do you believe that ?
How much profit would BT have made last year ?
Royal mail have offered a 2% pay rise, with an extra 1.5% once certain strings are attached.Such as a reduction in sick pay, scrapping a number of allowances, making Sunday working compulsory, later start times, annualised hours and significantly different pay for all new members, creating a two-tier workforce.
Should we just bend over and take that?
After working through a pandemic to line the shareholders pockets would you say this is fair ?
If I was a betting man I'd put everything I have on they'll strike over this.

 

[mudsticks]

You really have got a lot of issues haven't you.

According to you your equally OK and will be no less alright than me, I assume as an employer you can pay a really good wage and look after 'those coming after' for us.

As for paid off mortgages and pensions they're not free you know and there's plenty on here in equal or better positions than me that seems to be acceptable to you?

Old bicycle repair man happily informs us of a pension that pays him 'just below the higher tax rate' yet he meets with your approval.

I think you may be confusing

'Having issues'

With

'Being concerned with issues'

'Issues' is what we're here to talk about on NACA .

Well most of us are anyhow.

Apparently some are just here 'for a laugh'
Funny old game eh??

 

[mudsticks]

When you say all business are struggling do you believe that ?
How much profit would BT have made last year ?
Royal mail have offered a 2% pay rise, with an extra 1.5% once certain strings are attached.Such as a reduction in sick pay, scrapping a number of allowances, making Sunday working compulsory, later start times, annualised hours and significantly different pay for all new members, creating a two-tier workforce.
Should we just bend over and take that?
After working through a pandemic to line the shareholders pockets would you say this is fair ?
If I was a betting man I'd put everything I have on they'll strike over this.

Windfall tax for the likes of BP and Shell.

Not much 'struggling' going on there..

 

[Deleted member 28]

I think you may be confusing

'Having issues'

With

'Being concerned with issues'

'Issues' is what we're here to talk about on NACA .

Well most of us are anyhow.

Apparently some are just here 'for a laugh'
Funny old game eh??

You need to get over yourself, I made a comment to a post and you felt the need to bestow your opinions on us then follow that up with a full on novel!

 

[mudsticks]

You need to get over yourself, I made a comment to a post and you felt the need to bestow your opinions on us then follow that up with a full on novel!

Hang on a minute - only the other day you said you were very happy for me to 'opiniate away' -

- Don't tell me you've gone off the idea

Perhaps, instead of my 'needing to get over myself' - whatever that's supposed to mean.

You need to make your mind up what it is you really want - otherwise it all comes over as rather inconsistent I'd say