Starmer's vision quest

[Deleted member 49]

You never know, but reheated Blairism might actually be attractive to a lot of people. That is one of the awkward things about democracy, the outcomes are not what everyone wants.

You never know people might actually want a party that represents them ?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-tories-starmer-sunak-poll-b2290995.html

 

[Rusty Nails]

You never know people might actually want a party that represents them ?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-tories-starmer-sunak-poll-b2290995.html

Ready made role for the return of that sleeping giant, the Lib Dems! That should please you, unless you think people are so disaffected with the Tories that they want a party to the left of Labour.

Ideally I would like to see possibly an extra two credible parties rather than our stale duopoly, including a much more socialist option, even though that would increase the likelihood of coalitions.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Lol..reading the room 🙄

Asked whether the SNP's claim that Keir Starmer believes in Brexit more than the PM is true, the Labour leader's spokesman tells me that under Labour there will be "no return to the Single Market, no return to the Customs Union no return to freedom of movement."

 

[multitool]

I think he means you, Adam ..

 

[Deleted member 49]

I think he means you, Adam ..


View attachment 3202

The Mission Lol....
Poverty, Inequality ?

 

[multitool]

I think you have to look at the strategic intent, Adam. I know you refuse to accept that the primary purpose of the Labour party is to gain power in order to implement its policies and you think that it should remain an impotent protest party enabling a massive Tory majority which in turn enables an unopposed enactment of whatever policies the Tories choose, but maybe just try for a moment, eh?

He sits in the Corbyn legacy of the worst electoral defeat since 1935 ( I know you try to present 2017 as a Labour victory, Adam, but I'm afraid it wasn't. The Tories win. With a majority). He cannot win on Brexit for very obvious reasons. He cannot win in a left-wing agenda for very obvious reasons. He cannot win by taking up the culture war for very obvious reasons.

So what is the ground on which he can win? The Tories preferred ground. He is even stealing the Tories slogans from them. Before you start squealing that Labour are just another Tory party, Adam, re-read the first paragraph. Also remember that that is an identical claim that people like you were making in 1997 about Blair. Then remind yourself that without Blair we would otherwise be looking at 43 years of constant Tory rule. You can't bend political reality to fit your own desires, Adam.

 

[newfhouse]

the primary purpose of the Labour party is to gain power in order to implement its policies

If the policies are either nebulous or no better than those of the current regime, what’s the point of giving them that power? Or do you think they will suddenly remember what the Labour Party is actually supposed to be for once they have their hands on the controls?

I am likely to vote for them, at least if they are best placed to win in my constituency, but it will be more through hope than expectation.

 

[multitool]

If the policies are either nebulous or no better than those of the current regime, what’s the point of giving them that power? Or do you think they will suddenly remember what the Labour Party is actually supposed to be for once they have their hands on the controls?

I am likely to vote for them, at least if they are best placed to win in my constituency, but it will be more through hope than expectation.

There is no manifesto yet, because the election is still about two years in the distance, so I'm not sure we can meaningfully talk about Labour's policies. What we do know is that they are unlikely to mirror the manifesto promises of 2019, but your head isn't made of concrete, like Adam's, so there is probably no need to explore why.

(Adam's is, so for Adam: Corbyn's Labour gave the Tories the biggest open goal they could have wished for. An absolute dream. This was not unforeseen, and indeed there was a little in-joke among high level bankers (one of whom is a close relative of mine) with them joining the Labour Party in 2015 for £1, precisely so that they could vote for Corbyn. Why do you think that was, Adam?)

 

[Deleted member 49]

What we do know is that they are unlikely to mirror the manifesto promises of 2019, but your head isn't made of concrete, like Adam's, so there is probably no need to explore why.

Odd one that isn't it...seeing as though that's what he was elected leader on.

There is no manifesto yet, because the election is still about two years in the distance, so I'm not sure we can meaningfully talk about Labour's policies. What we do know is that they are unlikely to mirror the manifesto promises of 2019, but your head isn't made of concrete, like Adam's, so there is probably no need to explore why.

There's no anything you numpty ! Not even offering hope.🤣

Adam's is, so for Adam: Corbyn's Labour gave the Tories the biggest open goal they could have wished for. An absolute dream. This was not unforeseen, and indeed there was a little in-joke among high level bankers (one of whom is a close relative of mine) with them joining the Labour Party in 2015 for £1, precisely so that they could vote for Corbyn. Why do you think that was, Adam?)

Cool story bro....oh how we laughed 🙄
I do hope the "high level bankers" is rhyming slang ?
But the reality is the 2019 election was nothing more than a second referendum.The ludicrous idea of a second referendum by Labour cost them.
But back to the here and now with your wet dream of a Tony reincarnation ? Flags,NATO,Attacks on a decent pollitician who tried to change things for the better... Declaring last week we've rid the party of racism whilst welcoming back the likes of Neil Coyle...
Talk about empty head lol....

 

[multitool]

A second referendum? Yeah....that's why the Con win was such a close run thing...52/48 and not a massive landslide.

 

[Deleted member 28]

A second referendum? Yeah....that's why the Con win was such a close run thing...52/48 and not a massive landslide.

Thought it was a 'landslide' victory of 80 seats, highest since 1979 apparently? 43% vs 32% I read somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 49]

A second referendum? Yeah....that's why the Con win was such a close run thing...52/48 and not a massive landslide.

Odd isn't it how respecting the referendum in 2017 was a good move.Then fast forward to 2019 with Brexit party standing down in Tory marginals,Lib Dems whatever the feck they were,tinge cringe ...Starmer declaring Labour was the party of remain and 52 Labour leave seats went Tory.
But it was the monster jam maker that threw it.

 

[multitool]

Thought it was a 'landslide' victory of 80 seats, highest since 1979 apparently? 43% vs 32% I read somewhere.

FFS. Do you understand nothing?

 

[Rusty Nails]

I know you refuse to accept that the primary purpose of the Labour party is to gain power in order to implement its policies

You keep saying this, but its primary purpose is to improve the lot of people in this country via its policies, as without that there is no point to the Labour Party, and winning the election is just the first step in achieving that purpose. Unless, of course you are referring to primary as first in sequence rather than the most important.

It just becomes another cynical political exercise for career politicians if it isn't made clear just what those policies are before asking the public to lend them their vote.

While I want the Labour Party to oust the Tories, and I can see the reason why Starmer is just keeping his head down and hoping the Tories will continue to shoot themselves in the foot, I would prefer it if it wasn't just a leap in the dark as to what exactly their policies would be and an assumption that they will be an improvement.

I hope that gradually, before an election is on us, he will respect the electorate and have the courage of his convictions to become clearer about his policies.

 

[multitool]

Without winning an election it cannot do anything. But there is a dynamic relationship between what the policies are and whether they appeal to enough voters whilst being distorted by right-wing client media.

In an imperfect world this is what we have.