Starmer's vision quest

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deptfordmarmoset

Über Member
Absolutely clueless

View attachment 3572


Oh...I forgot. Its not about actually being in power and actually having the ability to shape fiscal policy and actually make a difference to people's lives. Its about grandstanding at whatever protest you can latch onto and enjoying the acclaim as they chant your name because you've just promised them the earth, even though you aren't and never will be in any position to fulfil that promise :hyper:

Nevertheless, I'm surprised that the Green vote is continuing to stagnate. I would have thought that the degree of alienation (ABC voters - Anyone But Conservatives, Alternatives Becoming Conservatives) would have picked up more support. Good job there's no climate crisis underway.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Nevertheless, I'm surprised that the Green vote is continuing to stagnate. I would have thought that the degree of alienation (ABC voters - Anyone But Conservatives, Alternatives Becoming Conservatives) would have picked up more support. Good job there's no climate crisis underway.
I agree but I fear that people maybe are just apathetic...whilst the Tories and Labour fight it out over culture wars and who's the most right wing.
Utterly depressing choice ahead.
 
Absolutely clueless

Oh...I forgot. Its not about actually being in power and actually having the ability to shape fiscal policy and actually make a difference to people's lives. Its about grandstanding at whatever protest you can latch onto and enjoying the acclaim as they chant your name because you've just promised them the earth, even though you aren't and never will be in any position to fulfil that promise :hyper:

So, they gain power next time solely because they're not the hated Tories. What happens the election after that? Can they win without coherent policies for a second time?
 
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multitool

Pharaoh
So, they gain power next time solely because they're not the hated Tories. What happens the election after that? Can they win without coherent policies for a second time?

Probably yes, and with the vague hope that the social contract is restored. I don't think we can expect policy reveals any time soon for rather obvious reasons. We'll probably just get statesman like noises to keep Starmer's face in the frame, and nebulous statements of values. Was it any different in the run up to 97?

I'm expecting the Tories to get decimated, and I'm hoping they don't recover for some time. After that? Itll be the usual hobson's choices in front of Starmer, how to manage a country that chose its own path of decline and still won't come to terms with it.
 

multitool

Pharaoh

Are you sure? :whistle:

The manifesto had not been published by this point in the election cycle. There was a pledge card with 5 promises, which were, admittedly somewhat more measurable than Labour's current '5 Missions'.

But by the time of the next election it will be the best part of 30 years since 97, and with the added catastrophe of Brexit.

The one consistent is that in 97 there were the naysayers claiming Tony Blair was no different to the Tories.
 

Wobblers

Member
Probably yes, and with the vague hope that the social contract is restored. I don't think we can expect policy reveals any time soon for rather obvious reasons. We'll probably just get statesman like noises to keep Starmer's face in the frame, and nebulous statements of values. Was it any different in the run up to 97?

I'm expecting the Tories to get decimated, and I'm hoping they don't recover for some time. After that? Itll be the usual hobson's choices in front of Starmer, how to manage a country that chose its own path of decline and still won't come to terms with it.

"Vague hope that the social contract is restored"? I admire your optimism. The problem is, Stamer has failed to give any backing to the idea he wants to restore the social contract. Quite the reverse, actually, when considering his actual pronouncements are limited to trying to out Tory the Tories. Given what Labour (are supposed to) stand for, I think it reasonable to have an expectation that the leader of the party give rather more than vague hopes in that direction. Which incidentally, Blair did. So no, it's really not at all like the run up to 97.
 
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Deleted member 121

Guest
I believe the Labour Party run up to the win in 97 is different to this one. John Major's Government was a wet rag but somewhat competent compared to the Conservative Party today. Labour had a watered down, "tory-light" manifesto to sell to the population then and Blair played the media circus well and campaigned well. Starmer is very wooden, more comparable to John Major. Blair was full of sh1t but energetic and approachable. Starmer seems to me to be almost "pope-like" in his popemobile. He seems distant from the public in comparison, Blair was out canvassing and campaigning seemingly daily. But, there is still time. Labour in '97 initially wasn't a huge difference to what the Cons offered. One of their manifesto promises for example was to get 250000 under 25's off the dole and into work and another to fast track young offenders punishment to sentencing but welfare reforms such as the tax credits reform didn't happen until around 2000 if i remember, replacing the family credit and wasn't part of their original 1996 launch manifesto.

It could be Starmer is being cautious, it could also be he simply hasn't launched whatever strategy he has in mind for the up and coming election. I don't know, but i do think that Labour will beat the cons easily and the majority will depend on whether Starmer up's his game. I think those hoping for a radical socialist left party full of associated policies are dreaming regardless of FPTP political system or not. Maybe one day, but not in this lifetime and in this country of people...
 
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the snail

Active Member
I believe the Labour Party run up to the win in 97 is different to this one. John Major's Government was a wet rag but somewhat competent compared to the Conservative Party today. Labour had a watered down, "tory-light" manifesto to sell to the population then and Blair played the media circus well and campaigned well. Starmer is very wooden, more comparable to John Major. Blair was full of sh1t but energetic and approachable. Starmer seems to me to be almost "pope-like" in his popemobile. He seems distant from the public in comparison, Blair was out canvassing and campaigning seemingly daily. But, there is still time. Labour in '97 initially wasn't a huge difference to what the Cons offered. One of their manifesto promises for example was to get 250000 under 25's off the dole and into work and another to fast track young offenders punishment to sentencing but welfare reforms such as the tax credits reform didn't happen until around 2000 if i remember, replacing the family credit and wasn't part of their original 1996 launch manifesto.

It could be Starmer is being cautious, it could also be he simply hasn't launched whatever strategy he has in mind for the up and coming election. I don't know, but i do think that Labour will beat the cons, easily and the majority will depend on whether Starmer up's his game. I think those hoping for a radical socialist left party full of associated policies are dreaming regardless of FPTP political system or not. Maybe one day, but not in this lifetime and in this country of people...

This was also in the context of the previous election where the tories were able to frighten people into thinking Labour would destroy the economy, although that might be difficult to pull off after Truss, brexit etc.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
It could be Starmer is being cautious, it could also be he simply hasn't launched whatever strategy he has in mind for the up and coming election.

I think it's both. On the latter point, he is being sensible. He has no need to put up his intended policies now and give the Tories 2 years to either implement them and render Labour redundant or shape their attack lines at leisure.

On the former, this is not in anyway an equivalent era to the mid-90s. We have had two cataclysmic social and political events in the form of a pandemic and Brexit. Brexit has caused not only sclerotic government for about 6 years, but fault lines running laterally across conventional party allegiances, but mostly affecting Labour. A combination of Brexit and Corbyn's utter unsuitability caused lifelong Labour voters to elect Tory MPs in deprived areas. Starmer is still in a position where he is having to pretend Brexit isn't there.

This is, and has been, the weirdest political landscape for at least 50 years.
 
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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
I think it's both. On the latter point, he is being sensible. He has no need to put up his intended policies now and give the Tories 2 years to either implement them and render Labour redundant or shape their attack lines at leisure.

On the former, this is not in anyway an equivalent era to the mid-90s. We have had two cataclysmic social and political events in the form of a pandemic and Brexit. Brexit has caused not only sclerotic government for about 6 years, but fault lines running laterally across conventional party allegiances, but mostly affecting Labour. A combination of Brexit and Corbyn's utter unsuitability caused lifelong Labour voters to elect Tory MPs in deprived areas. Starmer is still in a position where he is having to pretend Brexit isn't there.

This is, and has been, the weirdest political landscape for at least 50 years.
You're right it's nothing like the 90s although you keep harking back to Blair....
Brexit,Covid,Corbyn yawn...he offers no solutions to any of the problems,not even a flicker of a idea.
 
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