Starmer's vision quest

[newfhouse]

Well, for people waiting for operations, hip replacements, hysterectomy etc, things that are real quality of life factors, what do you propose?

Sent them abroad for treatment? Ignore them? Make them wait 15+ years for a new system of medical training to be developed, instituted and produce its first batch of surgeons?

Ignoring the fact that many (most?) of the health professionals will be moonlighting from the NHS, some to make ends meet, suppose the waiting lists for some treatments are magically reduced. Once achieved, will the contracts be ended or will the effective privatisation of those specialties be so embedded that there’s no way back?

 

[BoldonLad]

Is the new company investing your £180 in maintaining the infrastructure required to treat, process and recycle your waste or are they taking your cash and pumping your shite into the rivers and seas?

I don’t know if they have built a personal pipe to process my household’s shite, but, the local rivers (Tyne and Wear) are now the cleanest they have been in my lifetime.

 

[BoldonLad]

You never cease to amaze with your ability to understand absolutely nothing.

It is not about whether your bill has increased or not. It is about where the money has gone, and the answer is to foreign share holders rather than (in part) paying for infrastructure repairs/modernisation which is why British rivers and coastal waters are now dying because they are being pumped full of untreated shìt.

You privy to to the share register of Northumbria Water and every other Water Company in UK then?

 

[BoldonLad]

Just a teensy bit.

All electronic no trees were harmed, you will be pleased to hear, I am sure.

 

[multitool]

I don’t know if they have built a personal pipe to process my household’s shite, but, the local rivers (Tyne and Wear) are now the cleanest they have been in my lifetime.

That isn't necessarily to do with the water companies, though is it.

Deindustrialisation and changing industrial practices will mean there are no longer the discharges and leaching that were commonplace. For example you no longer have coal mining, which leached iron ore into the water, or mine water pumped into the estuary. No more coke works or coal and smokeless fuel processing which deposited phenols, thiocyanates, benzene, toluene, xylene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heavy metals. Ship building is largely gone tributyl tin is being phased out of antifouling paints.

As it stands the Tyne and Wear are not even in the top 20 of shoot-filled rivers, but the bar isn't very high. Look at the Severn, for example.

But let's talk about sewage. If you'd bothered to do any research (ie. watch literally any news report) you'd know that Environmental Agency water testing budgets were slashed by the Tories in 2010. This led to a near 3000% increase in the number of sewage discharge incidents into British waters in 5 years. Only 14% of rivers in England have “good” ecological status and this figure could fall to just 6% by 2027. Rivers are now an extension of the sewage network.

All under the Tories.

 

[multitool]

Ignoring the fact that many (most?) of the health professionals will be moonlighting from the NHS, some to make ends meet, suppose the waiting lists for some treatments are magically reduced. Once achieved, will the contracts be ended or will the effective privatisation of those specialties be so embedded that there’s no way back?

Whilst that is true for consultants, is it true for nurses and ancillary staff?

In answer to your question, who knows. Especially given that the situation in the NHS is to a large degree caused by the collapse of the social care system (resulting in healthy patients not being discharged), which in turn is at the mercy of an ageing population requiring more social care.

 

[multitool]

You privy to to the share register of Northumbria Water and every other Water Company in UK then?

Little tip: Think first. Then open mouth.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...cent-english-water-industry-foreign-ownership

Northumbrian Water?

Owned by the Cayman Islands-registered Hong Kong conglomerate CK Hutchison Holdings Limited.

 

[BoldonLad]

That isn't necessarily to do with the water companies, though is it.

Deindustrialisation and changing industrial practices will mean there are no longer the discharges and leaching that were commonplace. For example you no longer have coal mining, which leached iron ore into the water, or mine water pumped into the estuary. No more coke works or coal and smokeless fuel processing which deposited phenols, thiocyanates, benzene, toluene, xylene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heavy metals. Ship building is largely gone tributyl tin is being phased out of antifouling paints.

As it stands the Tyne and Wear are not even in the top 20 of shoot-filled rivers, but the bar isn't very high. Look at the Severn, for example.

But let's talk about sewage. If you'd bothered to do any research (ie. watch literally any news report) you'd know that Environmental Agency water testing budgets were slashed by the Tories in 2010. This led to a near 3000% increase in the number of sewage discharge incidents into British waters in 5 years. Only 14% of rivers in England have “good” ecological status and this figure could fall to just 6% by 2027. Rivers are now an extension of the sewage network.

All under the Tories.

I didn't say there wasn't a problem.

My issue is with the assumption that Nationalisation will solve it.

 

[BoldonLad]

Little tip: Think first. Then open mouth.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...cent-english-water-industry-foreign-ownership

Northumbrian Water?

Owned by the Cayman Islands-registered Hong Kong conglomerate CK Hutchison Holdings Limited.

I am fully aware that Northumbrian Water is foreign owned, to the best of my knowledge, they are not listed on LSE. However, several other of our Privatised Water Companies are listed on LSE, and, have some British Share holders (well, at least one, ie me). I don't quite understand this obsession with "foreign" share holders, on a forum whose members are mostly pro EU, is there an an objection to British Companies owning facilities in other Countries?, or, indeed, British individuals receiving dividends from Companies based outside UK?

There are instances of non-UK nationalised industries (EDF, DB to mention just two) owning or operating privatised untiles in this country, instead of obsessing about dividends and foreign share holders, I ponder, did "our" Nationalised Industries ever do anything so adventurous, and, if not, why not?

 

[qigong chimp]

No more coke works or coal and smokeless fuel processing which deposited phenols..

Aren't they what we drink tea for?

 

[Deleted member 49]

I didn't say there wasn't a problem.

My issue is with the assumption that Nationalisation will solve it.

How can it do any worse.You made it all about yourself and cost,totally missing the point.Some of us have little interest in shareholders dividends.

View: https://twitter.com/Feargal_Sharkey/status/1660190357340946432?t=Fnv15A7DDf6PyWNLmK6LNg&s=19

 

[multitool]

I didn't say there wasn't a problem.

The context of the discussion was water companies not investing in infrastructure, focusing on extracting profit instead, with the result that British rivers are now dying. You said T&W are now cleaner than before. Your implication was that cleaner rivers are as a result of actions by Northumbrian Water.

I pointed out that a large part of this will be deindustrialisation, then gave you figure for 'clean rivers' in UK, which are shocking, and explained why.

You, as always, approached the conversation with zero knowledge and zero thought. Had you done so, you wouldn't have posted what you did.

My issue is with the assumption that Nationalisation will solve it.

Well, that is the first time you have aired that view. Previously you just made some snark about whether I knew eho the share holders of water companies are. I then told you who owns your regional water company.

Do I have to explain to you how a nationalised company will be re-investing profits into infrastructure, and won't be salting off to overseas companies?

Or, even in the light of the disaster that is water privatisation, are you going to come up with the trope that private companies are necessarily more effective than nationalised ones?

 

[BoldonLad]

How can it do any worse.You made it all about yourself and cost,totally missing the point.Some of us have little interest in shareholders dividends.

View: https://twitter.com/Feargal_Sharkey/status/1660190357340946432?t=Fnv15A7DDf6PyWNLmK6LNg&s=19

Only to refute the claim that we were being "ripped off", and all of the profits were going to foreign share holders.

I don't live in a black and white world, as you appear to, and, I am old enough to remember the "joys" of CEGB, Northern Gas, National Coal Board etc etc

 

[multitool]

I am fully aware that Northumbrian Water is foreign owned, to the best of my knowledge, they are not listed on LSE. However, several other of our Privatised Water Companies are listed on LSE, and, have some British Share holders (well, at least one, ie me). I don't quite understand this obsession with "foreign" share holders, on a forum whose members are mostly pro EU, is there an an objection to British Companies owning facilities in other Countries?, or, indeed, British individuals receiving dividends from Companies based outside UK?

There are instances of non-UK nationalised industries (EDF, DB to mention just two) owning or operating privatised untiles in this country, instead of obsessing about dividends and foreign share holders, I ponder, did "our" Nationalised Industries ever do anything so adventurous, and, if not, why not?

I doubt you are aware of much at all. I do think you did a bit of post-hoc googling.

I can't be arsed to address your points because they are fatuous. Go and find out the situation for yourself, formulate a view based on knowledge, then come back.

 

[BoldonLad]

The context of the discussion was water companies not investing in infrastructure, focusing on extracting profit instead, with the result that British rivers are now dying. You said T&W are now cleaner than before. Your implication was that cleaner rivers are as a result of actions by Northumbrian Water.

I pointed out that a large part of this will be deindustrialisation, then gave you figure for 'clean rivers' in UK, which are shocking, and explained why.

You, as always, approached the conversation with zero knowledge and zero thought. Had you done so, you wouldn't have posted what you did.



Well, that is the first time you have aired that view. Previously you just made some snark about whether I knew eho the share holders of water companies are. I then told you who owns your regional water company.

Do I have to explain to you how a nationalised company will be re-investing profits into infrastructure, and won't be salting off to overseas companies?

Or, even in the light of the disaster that is water privatisation, are you going to come up with the trope that private companies are necessarily more effective than nationalised ones?

You didn't tell me. I already knew, I was a Northumbria Water Share holder, until they were bought out.

Yes, the examples of infrastructure investment by Nationalised Industries are legion, NCB, British Rail, GPO,.....

I wouldn't dream of resorting to said trope, but, equally, I do not assume that Nationalisation is a cure all (British Shipbuilders anyone?).