Starmer's vision quest

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D

Deleted member 49

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multitool said:
That is a piece written by Lawson, about Lawson.

Here is an alternative view:

https://labourlist.org/2023/06/neal-lawson-compass-expulsion-labour-party/
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20230701-081001-681.png
 
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
Have we done the secret water company email yet?
 
multitool

multitool

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theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
multitool said:
your activist guy
Click to expand...

I see you're doubling down on the 'never heard of him' tactic.
 
D

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Ian H

Ian H

Legendary Member
multitool said:
Ideology of austerity was not actually part of the debate, at least with me, but having said that the circumstances of now are radically different to the circumstances of 2010, not only because of the amounts being borrowed but because of the cost of borrowing.

From what I can make out we are in a pile of trouble. It looks, from what I hear from friends in the building industry, that there might be a collapse in the house building market, because new houses are being sold at a loss.

You'll have to explain to me how we can spend our way out of this with borrowed money, without the usual consequences of higher inflation.

Wanging on about leopards, whilst funny, isn't really going to cut it
Click to expand...

If, owning a substantial amount of debt, you cut spending and shrink the economy, your debt becomes effectively more expensive to service. It can be a downward spiral. The trick is to spend your borrowed money in productive ways - ones that earn a return (essentially those that create jobs and allow people to earn enough to become economically active).
Imperfect analogy: several decades ago I decided (was forced to) to start my own business. I had little capital. The bank agreed to lend me £20k (ish) but I had to match that. So I increased the mortgage on the house (yeah, I know). Thus I had £40k of debt and, so far, no business - could have been disastrous. Two years later I had a profitable company and employed two people.
Or, a more relevant example might be Roosevelt's New Deal - these days you'd want to concentrate on climate resilience and clean energy.
 
BoldonLad

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
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Ian H said:
If, owning a substantial amount of debt, you cut spending and shrink the economy, your debt becomes effectively more expensive to service. It can be a downward spiral. The trick is to spend your borrowed money in productive ways - ones that earn a return (essentially those that create jobs and allow people to earn enough to become economically active).
Imperfect analogy: several decades ago I decided (was forced to) to start my own business. I had little capital. The bank agreed to lend me £20k (ish) but I had to match that. So I increased the mortgage on the house (yeah, I know). Thus I had £40k of debt and, so far, no business - could have been disastrous. Two years later I had a profitable company and employed two people.
Or, a more relevant example might be Roosevelt's New Deal - these days you'd want to concentrate on climate resilience and clean energy.
Click to expand...

So, rather than cut spending, you redirect spending?, but, who decides what is “productive” spending (there are as many ‘right’ answers as there are economists), and, some changes take time to produce results (education and training spring to mind immediately), this may have cash flow implications. Your personal story is heartening, but, the outcome may have been luck, rather than wise choices. No disrespect intended by the way.
 
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