Starmer's vision quest

[Pale Rider]

We subcontract our political management to political parties because most of us can't be bothered grappling with the fine details and difficulties of politics

I'm with multi on this one, I vote for a government every few years and then expect them to ruddy well get on with it - no matter who comes out on top.

What I absolutely don't want is...

I guess people figured out that they actually had a say in something, and jumped at the chance. Perhaps things would have gone better if that happened routinely, instead of only once in about 40 years.

...stupid, time wasting, divisive referendums every five minutes.

 

[multitool]

So now we're having to pay/bribe companies to come here rather than the EU.Five hundred million to not go to Spain...but as you say we've no money.

View: https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1681413210090422283?t=62V7g3WA-wmh-tKXUkF8mw&s=19

State subsidies are not a new thing

Not sure why you are posting it here.

 

[Deleted member 49]

State subsidies are not a new thing

Not sure why you are posting it here.

Sigh...
Because you mentioned Brexit and you witter on about there being no money,I was just pointing out that there's always money to be found.

 

[theclaud]

We subcontract our political management to political parties because most of us can't be bothered grappling with the fine details and difficulties of politics. Brexit offered a simplistic diagnosis of the nation's ills and a completely contrary prescription to the one needed.

We'd all like free everything and no poor people. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's talk about possibilities rather than wishlists.

Technocrat talk, Multers. I wasn't supporting Brexit - I was simply saying that it's easy to have a visceral understanding of the impulse behind it, when politics is generally something that is done to us people with briefcases.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Anyway some better news of sorts for that bloke that nobody's ever heard of 😁

View: https://twitter.com/MayorJD/status/1681727632059015168?t=WpBDudsBsrsjQUx5cAA5kA&s=19

 

[theclaud]

I'm with multi on this one

Lucky old Multz!

 

[multitool]

Technocrat talk, Multers. I wasn't supporting Brexit - I was simply saying that it's easy to have a visceral understanding of the impulse behind it, when politics is generally something that is done to us people with briefcases.

No, maybe not, but you were supporting some sort of plebiscite politics. It isn't technocratic talk because we elect our politicians on the basis of popular vote, not on specialist knowledge, although one would hope that government officials with a brief acquire some.

Brexit was populism. Some of us understand what that is, but that doesn't mean it is desirable or beneficial to the electorate.

 

[Pale Rider]

plebiscite politics.

By the way readers, that means giving the electorate direct control of a single, important issue by a direct vote, like the referendum we had on EU membership.

@theclaud wants them 'more than every 40 years'.

Seems to me the experience of the last one should be enough to put us off referendums for more than 40 years.

We have a government elected to govern.

Let them get on with it.

If we don't like what they do, we can boot them out at the next general election.

I mean, we might, just might, see an example of that in the next year or two.

 

[theclaud]

but you were supporting some sort of plebiscite politics.

I wasn't doing anything of the kind. Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear, but I think it's more to do with you reading a much narrower definition of politics or democracy into it that I intended. Anyway the misapprehension or misrepresentation has won you an ally .

I see Brexit not as a cause but as a symptom and outcome of a wider malaise in British public and political life, broadly arising from 40 years of neoliberal hegemony and a lack of meaningful democratic control over major parts of our lives. My point is that I understand and share the negative feelings towards our political management classes that animated a lot of Brexit voters.

 

[multitool]

I wasn't doing anything of the kind. Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear, but I think it's more to do with you reading a much narrower definition of politics or democracy into it that I intended. Anyway the misapprehension or misrepresentation has won you an ally .

I see Brexit not as a cause but as a symptom and outcome of a wider malaise in British public and political life, broadly arising from 40 years of neoliberal hegemony and a lack of meaningful democratic control over major parts of our lives. My point is that I understand and share the negative feelings towards our political management classes that animated a lot of Brexit voters.

In what way was anything different prior to 1986?

 

[theclaud]

In what way was anything different prior to 1986?

I'm thinking more of 1979, actually, but the last few years have been mostly a blur and I wasn't expecting you to nitpick.

 

[multitool]

OK.

Let's do 1979 then.

 

[Pale Rider]

Let's do 1979 then.

Best I can do there is the release of London Calling by the Clash.

That must trump anything else that happened.

 

[theclaud]

OK.

Let's do 1979 then.

Srsly?

 

[multitool]

Srsly?

Yes, srsly