Starmer's vision quest

[Deleted member 49]

I mean, I've not yet left the party (cos that's what they want, innit), but if I were a Labour member in the region I'd be actively campaigning for Driscoll, and I'm definitely going to donate to his campaign. I don't imagine I'm alone.

I pushed the boat out and gave a fiver...the minimum !
Had one less pint last night which hurt.

 

[Deleted member 49]

About right.

View: https://twitter.com/PhilipProudfoot/status/1684869570350157824?t=X27zFI7RK2DgColGEjUXOA&s=19

 

[theclaud]

Yes, but I don't think Newsnight is mainstream enough. It's watched by the politically-interested, who likely are already aware of Driscoll.

This is getting silly, Multz. I wasn't arguing that Newsnight swings elections, I was simply saying that it's part of the mainstream, which is supposed to be Starmer's terrain. Admittedly I'd think that what they did to Driscoll mattered if it was a community council, a CTC DA (or whatever they're called these days), or the committee of a village jumble sale, but he's the leader of a large regional authority which is set to become a lot larger next year. We're talking about two million people, if I've got the gist of the devolution thingy (I'm not going to read the whole agreement). This is the mayor's remit:

• housing and regeneration
• education, skills and training
• the adult education budget
• the functional power of competence
• housing and planning, including mayoral development areas and corporations, land and acquisition powers
• finance, through council precepts and business rate supplements
• transport, including bus grants and franchising powers

It's as plain as day that what these control freaks want to quash is anything that demonstrates that government can and should a) be democratic and b) make a palpable difference to people's lives. I don't think you have to be a card-carrying Corbynista to get pissed off by a bunch of cold-eyed briefcases telling you your city, county or region will just have to stay shit forever for Fiscal Reasons They Just Made up, and to be attracted by someone who actually demonstrates that you can just decide to do things like have functional public transport and build houses.

 

[multitool]

This is getting silly, Multz. I wasn't arguing that Newsnight swings elections, I was simply saying that it's part of the mainstream, which is supposed to be Starmer's terrain.

You were questioning how it might affect Starmer's "strategy", which I took to mean as electoral strategy.

are the Starmer advocates/apologists hereabouts not a teensy bit worried about Labour's prospects in the mayoral contest, and what a defeat in North of Tyne might mean for Starmer's 'strategy'.

Not sure what else you could have meant by that.

I have some sympathy for the rest of your points, but for the fact that what underpins Tory electoral strategy is utter ruthlessness, and Starmer has realised that anything other than the same from Labour puts Labour on shaky ground. Remember, Tories can win elections on austerity, racism, and culture war.

That isn't to say that Labour should race to the bottom, but they will not win an election on huge spending commitments. In which case we'll get 5 more years of Tory austerity, racism and culture war.

Sometimes, you can't have the outcome you want, and the best outcome isn't particularly good, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[BoldonLad]

This is getting silly, Multz. I wasn't arguing that Newsnight swings elections, I was simply saying that it's part of the mainstream, which is supposed to be Starmer's terrain. Admittedly I'd think that what they did to Driscoll mattered if it was a community council, a CTC DA (or whatever they're called these days), or the committee of a village jumble sale, but he's the leader of a large regional authority which is set to become a lot larger next year. We're talking about two million people, if I've got the gist of the devolution thingy (I'm not going to read the whole agreement). This is the mayor's remit:

• housing and regeneration
• education, skills and training
• the adult education budget
• the functional power of competence
• housing and planning, including mayoral development areas and corporations, land and acquisition powers
• finance, through council precepts and business rate supplements
• transport, including bus grants and franchising powers

It's as plain as day that what these control freaks want to quash is anything that demonstrates that government can and should a) be democratic and b) make a palpable difference to people's lives. I don't think you have to be a card-carrying Corbynista to get pissed off by a bunch of cold-eyed briefcases telling you your city, county or region will just have to stay shit forever for Fiscal Reasons They Just Made up, and to be attracted by someone who actually demonstrates that you can just decide to do things like have functional public transport and build houses.

Given the remit, I can only hope Driscoll wins, the alternative does bear thinking about

 

[theclaud]

You were questioning how it might affect Starmer's "strategy", which I took to mean as electoral strategy.



Not sure what else you could have meant by that.

Are mayoral elections not electoral, then? Is it neither here nor there to Starmer whether Sadiq Khan or Susan Hall is mayor of London? But anyway, I meant political strategy rather than 'just' electoral - whatever strategy he has for the approaching general election is moot, if (as current polling suggests) he's on course to win by default as a result of the Tories imploding. They will regroup, and Capital is very likely to want its A-team back (unless Starmer manages to be even worse, in which case what does it matter anyway?) It's obviously part of his strategy to transform the Labour party from a broad-church large democratic organisation into a tiny managerial clique, which has sod all to do with winning the next election and everything to do with making sure the party can never again threaten the interests of the super-rich.

Tories can win elections on austerity, racism, and culture war.

They need the culture war precisely because the argument for austerity, such as it ever was, is in ruins. Austerity is popular with literally no-one except the politicians who get off on inflicting it, billionaires, and senior BBC correspondents. People don't vote for austerity - they acquiesce to it. Support for taxing the rich, funding public services, and nationalising key industries cuts across most classes and traditional party lines.

That isn't to say that Labour should race to the bottom

They're on a clear trajectory. What's going to change it?

 

[theclaud]

Another puff piece in the Murdoch press for these wankers. If, as Multz appears to believe, Starmer is going to bite the hand that feeds him and has 3D-Kasparov'd Murdoch into accidentally endorsing a surprise social democratic government, then I'll very gladly eat my hat. In the meantime I guess you have to hand it to Phillipson that the phrase "£, sorry" introducing an article supposedly about smashing the class ceiling is The Most Authentically Starmerite Thing I Have Ever Seen.


View: https://twitter.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1685199381413130241?t=VtxV3exj28_aieTbyAiynw&s=19

 

[Ian H]

Are mayoral elections not electoral, then? Is it neither here nor there to Starmer whether Sadiq Khan or Susan Hall is mayor of London? But anyway, I meant political strategy rather than 'just' electoral - whatever strategy he has for the approaching general election is moot, if (as current polling suggests) he's on course to win by default as a result of the Tories imploding. They will regroup, and Capital is very likely to want its A-team back (unless Starmer manages to be even worse, in which case what does it matter anyway?) It's obviously part of his strategy to transform the Labour party from a broad-church large democratic organisation into a tiny managerial clique, which has sod all to do with winning the next election and everything to do with making sure the party can never again threaten the interests of the super-rich.

They need the culture war precisely because the argument for austerity, such as it ever was, is in ruins. Austerity is popular with literally no-one except the politicians who get off on inflicting it, billionaires, and senior BBC correspondents. People don't vote for austerity - they acquiesce to it. Support for taxing the rich, funding public services, and nationalising key industries cuts across most classes and traditional party lines.

They're on a clear trajectory. What's going to change it?

I'm sure it's possible to come up with an attractive, believable strategy for economic & social renewal. I'm much less sure that the current Labour front bench is capable of it.

 

[multitool]

Are mayoral elections not electoral, then? Is it neither here nor there to Starmer whether Sadiq Khan or Susan Hall is mayor of London?

Are you really going to compare an election that features regularly on main stream news, with 2.5 million voting in it, with North Tynesude, which only features in local news and only 60k people vote?

I'll have to read the rest of your post later. Bit busy

 

[Rusty Nails]

I'm sure it's possible to come up with an attractive, believable strategy for economic & social renewal. I'm much less sure that the current Labour front bench is capable of it.

I am sure they are capable of it, but in trying to be all things to all people to win the next election they are not brave enough to do it.

 

[theclaud]

Are you really going to compare an election that features regularly on main stream news, with 2.5 million voting in it, with North Tynesude, which only features in local news and only 60k people vote?

I'll have to read the rest of your post later. Bit busy

It's kinda difficult to know what your threshold and criteria for importance are in this thread, TBH. It's an important region for Labour in general election terms, so acting like utter shits in the years running up to an election might work against them.

And doesn't the region just matter in its own right? As in the the people who live and work there need some control over their lives and futures, and the Labour party ought to be trying to bring that about?

 

[BoldonLad]

It's kinda difficult to know what your threshold and criteria for importance are in this thread, TBH. It's an important region for Labour in general election terms, so acting like utter shits in the years running up to an election might work against them.

View attachment 4330

And doesn't the region just matter in its own right? As in the the people who live and work there need some control over their lives and futures, and the Labour party ought to be trying to bring that about?

No, the region doesn’t matter, it is just full of Characterless new builds, remember.

That map shows a lot which is South of the Tyne, by the way, indeed, even South of the Wear.

 

[theclaud]

No, the region doesn’t matter, it is just full of Characterless new builds, remember.

That map shows a lot which is South of the Tyne, by the way, indeed, even South of the Wear.

I know - I was struggling to work the map widget. But the new enlarged region will include Durham, Sunderland etc...

 

[theclaud]

View: https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1683918976299175936?s=19

 

[multitool]

No, the region doesn’t matter, it is just full of Characterless new builds, remember.

So who TF are you? Aurora?

Are you copying her dishonest misrepresentation now?

I didn't say the area didn't matter. I said the hoo har over the selection of Labour candidate for the mayorship didn't matter to Labour's General Election chances.

And you wonder why I don't have much time for you.