Starmer's vision quest

[multitool]

You've no idea how much it pains me to have given Pallid a 'like'

 

[Pale Rider]

You've no idea how much it pains me to have given Pallid a 'like'

You've no idea how much it surprises me to receive it.

Assuming the Tories will be toast, that several of the usual suspects on here dislike Starmer gives me some reassurance a Labour government under him might not be so terrible.

Either that or they split the Labour party and its vote allowing the Tories to sneak back in.

Win win, or at least win draw.

 

[theclaud]

Steady, you are doing an Aurora.

Ouch. Point taken. But you're not exactly a model of nuance, empathy and compromise on this thread either.

This master plan is in your head, not mine.

Maybe he has formulated one

OK I acknowledge you only claimed he might (or might not) have a plan. Any suggestion for what to say on the doorstep to an unconvinced voter on that basis?

If you believe that the papers destroyed Corbyn because he threatened the structures then you have to believe that they would do the same to Starmer if he threatened them.

Let's all bang our heads then

Now who's Doing an Aurora? There was loads of criticism and suggestion, constructive and otherwise, on here (or whatever bit of CC it was) about Corbyn's options and strategies for dealing with a hostile media and political establishment.

 

[newfhouse]

Blimey, some of you Labour punters are never happy.

It's what they do, not the colour of the rosette that counts.

 

[BoldonLad]

Rent-free, Multers. No one has mentioned Corbyn for pages. It's currently about the fact that the corporate billionaire media is endorsing your boy. I think that's because they're comfortable that there's zero threat to the existing power structure from his administration. Which in turn means there's zero prospect of structural change that will begin to fix what's wrong. You're apparently convinced not only that there's a Brilliant Plan that's contrary to these indications and to everything we already know about the politics of Starmer and his cabinet, but that it's a Brilliant Plan that we'll all get behind, despite their being no clue as to what it might be and no instinct to treat voters as people who might expect it to be shared with them. Believe what you like, but it's odd to behave as if it's everyone else that is being wildly irrational.

I think @multitool needs to change his user name to Baldrick. 😊

 

[multitool]

Ouch. Point taken. But you're not exactly a model of nuance, empathy and compromise on this thread either.

How dare you?

OK I acknowledge you only claimed he might (or might not) have a plan. Any suggestion for what to say on the doorstep to an unconvinced voter on that basis?

Genuinely, I doubt most voters will be wanting to hear about deep structural change and constitutional reform, or at least if they do, it will be couched in immediacy and in prosaic terms. I suspect they will want to know whether their money will carry on being devalued through high inflation, and rising energy costs. Whether their mortgages will remain where they are and whether they can get a doctors appointment within two weeks.

I'm not convinced I know the answers to these conundrums, but I suspect the deep answer lies in reintegration with the EU markets, increasing productivity, and increasing tax revenue. None of these have simple remedies, and all of them come with undesirable consequences...even taxing the rich more heavily.

As for what gets said on the doorstep, as usual it will have to be a promise to make people's lives better.

Now who's Doing an Aurora? There was loads of criticism and suggestion, constructive and otherwise, on here (or whatever bit of CC it was) about Corbyn's options and strategies for dealing with a hostile media and political establishment.

The British are weird. They want all the things you'd expect them to want, but if you offer it to them they get suspicious and start to suspect profligacy.

 

[theclaud]

The British are weird. They want all the things you'd expect them to want, but if you offer it to them they get suspicious and start to suspect profligacy

Can't argue with this. It's not helped by people who ought to know better propagating the myth that governments don't have the power to spend unless they can raid the piggy banks of their citizens.

 

[multitool]

It's not helped by people who ought to know better propagating the myth that governments don't have the power to spend unless they can raid the piggy banks of their citizens.

I think Cameron muddied the water by confusing debt with deficit hence the crude analogies to personal finances.

Ultimately, though, public spending has to work towards strengthening the economy (eg better health=fewer work days lost to ill health, better education=more skilled workforce , better transport infrastructure=quicker, cheaper transport) otherwise the end result is a higher proportion of government budget going to service debt. If it goes badly the base cost of borrowing goes up to.

None of this is easy. If it was every government would spend their way to repeat electoral victories.

 

[Deleted member 49]

No money yawn....same old crap.According to this goon it's ok to wish the problems would get better,but we can't do anything about it other than slow it down a little ?
He hasn't got a plan has he...Reform 🤣

View: https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1699335841015890297?t=eH2pQlrKLItEfNPaDHux7w&s=19

 

[multitool]

He hasn't got a plan has he...Reform 🤣

Reform is exactly what theclaud says is necessary.

Think youll have to argue it out with her.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Reform is exactly what theclaud says is necessary.

Think youll have to argue it out with her.

Fire away Claud...
Doesn't really matter who it is...how are you going to "reform" anything in this country without spending ? There's literally no vision or anything to offer change.Everyone knows you can't invest in public services because of "fiscal rules" some of us just don't buy that sh1t though.

 

[multitool]

Fire away Claud...
Doesn't really matter who it is...how are you going to "reform" anything in this country without spending ? There's literally no vision or anything to offer change.Everyone knows you can't invest in public services because of "fiscal rules" some of us just don't buy that sh1t though.

You "don't buy it" on the basis of a lack of knowledge. You are quite correct when you say that government have choices about how they spend money, but as you saw just under 12 months ago there are potentially enormous consequences as to choices they make with repercussions that affect us all.

How's your mortgage going?

 

[Deleted member 49]

You "don't buy it" on the basis of a lack of knowledge

Lol...coming from you I'll take that as a compliment.

How's your mortgage going?

How's the banks profits going ?
Tax the wealthy and the banks it's simple...even for such a wealth of knowledge as yourself.🙄

 

[Deleted member 49]

Lol..

View: https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1699515039542108329?t=O2sbEnzAWLAIYSsBfT6uZA&s=19

 

[multitool]

How's the banks profits going ?
Tax the wealthy and the banks it's simple..

Who are the wealthy? How are you going to Tax them and by how much? What are negatives consequences of doing this?