Starmer's vision quest

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Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
But we've a Tory government....when so many are going to struggle to feed,heat and home themselves what would you suggest ?

That's not the answer to my question....

I'll answer yours - Manning the barricades, industrial action, civil unrest, downthrow of the (likely) Truss Tory Government ASAP.

Let's say then in 12 months Labour win the GE and the state of the nation (for sake of argument) is as per now. Would you expect a Labour Government to rubber-stamp any requests by the Unions over Public Sector (and any private organisations providing essential infrastructure) pay and condition demands regardless and without limit??
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
That's not the answer to my question....

I'll answer yours - Manning the barricades, industrial action, civil unrest, downthrow of the (likely) Truss Tory Government ASAP.

Let's say then in 12 months Labour win the GE and the state of the nation (for sake of argument) is as per now. Would you expect a Labour Government to rubber-stamp any requests by the Unions over Public Sector (and any private organisations providing essential infrastructure) pay and condition demands regardless and without limit??
You need to ask me....feck em ! up the workers 🙄
Seriously though.... if Labour get into power ? Your talking in 12 months,I'm talking now,at this current time. I've more faith in the Unions than I do Starmer/Labour at the moment.I don't feel he's offering anything.But I'm prepared to be shocked,wake me up when he does will you.
 

Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
You need to ask me....feck em ! up the workers 🙄
Seriously though.... if Labour get into power ? Your talking in 12 months,I'm talking now,at this current time. I've more faith in the Unions than I do Starmer/Labour at the moment.I don't feel he's offering anything.But I'm prepared to be shocked,wake me up when he does will you.

Let me try this another way.... If a Union demands any pay rise (however out of kilter with the economics of the time), you're OK for Labour to pass that through?
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Who care's, Sue Me
Let me try this another way.... If a Union demands any pay rise (however out of kilter with the economics of the time), you're OK for Labour to pass that through?

are the unions asking for that now then???
 

Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

This article is about the United Kingdom's winter of 1978–79.
121px-Crisis_What_Crisis_Sun_headline.jpg
The Sun's headline "Crisis? What crisis?"
163px-James_Callaghan.jpg
James Callaghan, Prime Minister during the Winter of Discontent, in 1978

The Winter of Discontent was the period between November 1978 and February 1979 in the United Kingdom characterised by widespread strikes by private, and later public, sector trade unions demanding pay rises greater than the limits Prime Minister James Callaghan and his Labour Party government had been imposing, against Trades Union Congress (TUC) opposition, to control inflation. Some of these industrial disputes caused great public inconvenience, exacerbated by the coldest winter in 16 years, in which severe storms isolated many remote areas of the country.[1]
A strike by workers at Ford in late 1978 was settled with a pay increase of 17 per cent, well above the 5 per cent limit the government was holding its own workers to with the intent of setting an example for the private sector to follow, after a resolution at the Labour Party's annual conference urging the government not to intervene passed overwhelmingly. At the end of the year a road hauliers' strike began, coupled with a severe storm as 1979 began. Later in the month many public workers followed suit as well. These actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside, and strikes by refuse collectors, leaving uncollected rubbish on streets and in public spaces, including London's Leicester Square. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.[2]

The unrest had deeper causes besides resentment of the caps on pay rises. Labour's internal divisions over its commitment to socialism, manifested in disputes over labour law reform and macroeconomic strategy during the 1960s and early 1970s, pitted constituency members against the party's establishment. Many of the strikes were initiated at the local level, with national union leaders largely unable to stop them. Union membership, particularly in the public sector, had grown more female and less white, and the growth of the public sector unions had not brought them a commensurate share of power within the TUC.

After Callaghan returned from a summit conference in the tropics at a time when the hauliers' strike and the weather had seriously disrupted the economy, leading thousands to apply for unemployment benefits, his denial that there was "mounting chaos" in the country was paraphrased in a famous Sun headline as "Crisis? What Crisis?" Conservative leader Margaret Thatcher's acknowledgement of the severity of the situation in a party political broadcast a week later was seen as instrumental to her victory in the general election held four months later after Callaghan's government fell to a no-confidence vote.
Once in power, the Conservatives, who under Thatcher's leadership had begun criticising the unions as too powerful, passed legislation, similar to that proposed in a Labour white paper a decade earlier, that banned many practices, such as secondary picketing, that had magnified the effects of the strikes. Thatcher, and later other Conservatives like Boris Johnson, have continued to invoke the Winter of Discontent in election campaigns; it would be 18 years until another Labour government took power.
In the late 2010s, after the more left wing Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader, some British leftists argued that this narrative about the Winter of Discontent was inaccurate, and that policy in subsequent decades was much more harmful to Britain.

The term "Winter of Discontent" is taken from the opening line of William Shakespeare's play Richard III.[3]: 28  It is credited to Larry Lamb,[4]: 254  then editor at The Sun, in an editorial on 3 May 1979.[5]: 64 
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Let me try this another way.... If a Union demands any pay rise (however out of kilter with the economics of the time), you're OK for Labour to pass that through?
Show me any demands that you consider over the top in today's disputes ?
Winter of discontent is just another hashtag....id have liked Labour to be campaigning for the 15 quid a hour min wage.At the very least !
 
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Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
Show me any demands that you consider over the top in today's disputes ?
Winter of discontent is just another hashtag....id have liked Labour to be campaigning for the 15 quid a hour min wage.At the very least !

None, right now, but IMO it remains a greater possibility under a Labour Govt.
I'd vote for a £15 minimum wage too - didn't starmer propose/back this once? However, that will also have consequences as it will put many smaller business into administration so fewer jobs....
Everything is a balance.
 
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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
I'd vote for a £15 minimum wage too - didn't starmer propose/back this once?
Like that means feck all...there's nothing he hasn't gone back on.
However, that will also have consequences as it will put many smaller business into administration
Don't agree...I think more money for low paid/working people means more money spent in our high streets.
 

Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
Like that means feck all...there's nothing he hasn't gone back on.

Don't agree...I think more money for low paid/working people means more money spent in our high streets.

I don't agree that the money will do much for the high streets as it'll go straight on paying bills and the increased costs of everything....
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Who care's, Sue Me
I don't agree that the money will do much for the high streets as it'll go straight on paying bills and the increased costs of everything....

You mean the increased cost of living of items sold on the high street??? Or in shops??? Etc etc

and you lot call yourselves clever.
 
D

Deleted member 28

Guest
You mean the increased cost of living of items sold on the high street??? Or in shops??? Etc etc

and you lot call yourselves clever.

I would guess it'll mainly be spent on gas, leccy and fuel rather than a new sofa or meals out.

What will you spend your benefit increase on, some more decking?
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Who care's, Sue Me
I would hazard a guess it would mainly be spent on gas, leccy and fuel rather than a new sofa or meals out.

What will you spend your benefit increase on, some more decking?

I dont and never have claimed benefits in my life….but if you think i have, then well done you.

but isnt the cost of gas, leccy and fuel causing the cost of living crisis??? Or something else causing it
 
D

Deleted member 28

Guest
I dont and never have claimed benefits in my life….but if you think i have, then well done you.

but isnt the cost of gas, leccy and fuel causing the cost of living crisis??? Or something else causing it

What are you talking about now you idiot?

One fella reckons any wage increase for the lower paid people probably wouldn't find it's way onto the high street and you disagreed, I said it would more than likely be spent on things like gas/leccy?

Can you actually even read?
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Who care's, Sue Me
What are you talking about now you idiot?

One fella reckons any wage increase for the lower paid people probably wouldn't find it's way onto the high street and you disagreed, I said it would more than likely be spent on things like gas/leccy?

Can you actually even read?

Are you that farking thick, that you dont understand the cost of living crisis, because your a farkwit tory self-gratification artist???


i stated it would be spent on the high streets, like food, clothes etc etc that you buy on the farking high street, you farking dimwit.
 
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D

Deleted member 28

Guest
Are you that farking thick, that you dont understand the cost of living crisis, because your a farkwit tory self-gratification artist???


i stated it would be spent on the high streets, like food, clothes etc etc that you buy on the farking high street, you farking dimwit.

And I don't think that it automatically would as many people would still be struggling to pay the everyday bills.

Now which part of that don't YOU understand you benefit scrounging, council estate, bin dipping spastic?
 
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