Starmer's vision quest
- Thread starter mjr
- Start date
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AndyRM
Elder Goth
Shoulda quit while you were even just a little ahead fella.
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multitool
Shaman
I suspect you are imputing far too much long-term cohesive strategy to what was short-term opportunism on the part of the right wing.
The biggest winners from the Labour's anti-semitism crisis was the Tory party circa 2019. It wasn't Israel, and even if Labour was currently issuing unmuted criticism of Israel's current war crimes it would not make one jot of difference to Israel's trajectory. The Tories used Corbyn's ineptitude to maximum effect. Naturally, the right-wing client press obliged.
The anti-semitism crisis of the UK Labour party may have been welcomed by the Israelis, but I do not believe it was "initiated on their behalf". It was far more cynical.
If you want some evidence have a look at the key Jewish voices within the Labour party, and what they were saying about Israel in relation to the conflict pre-2019.
Here is Luciana Berger, for example in 2018:
View: https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/996342313394823169
Have a look at what Margaret Hodge is saying now about Israeli actions in Gaza. It doesn't fit in with your conspiracy theory.
Abbot was suspended for suggesting Jews do not suffer racism. I find this weird given that I lived in Abbot's constituency when she was first elected, less than a mike from Stamford Hill, where Jewish primary schools were surrounded by barbed wire, such was the frequency of attacks.
For her to say this in the years following a crisis that nearly did for the Labour party is beyond idiotic.
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C R
Über Member
She suggested no such thing.
C R
Über Member
cookiemonster
Veteran
- Location
- Far away from the asylum
Isn't racism a form of prejudice anyway? In the same way that Islamophobia and Anti-semitism are also forms of prejudice?
Prejudice, according to the OED, is the preconceived opinion of a person/group of people which is not based on reason.
So, Ms Abbott was correct.
multitool
Shaman
She says "racism is similar to prejudice", therefore she is saying prejudice and racism are not the same thing. She says jews suffer prejudice but not racism.
It does not matter what the OED says. It matters what Abbot said.
matticus
Guru
... whilst racism is different (although inextricably linked). Broadly, it comes down to:
the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race
[e.g. thru violence, or employment discrimination]
It's common to conflate the two, especially if it helps form a criticism of someone.
IMO anti-semitism and racism towards black people are closely related but different*. Saying otherwise is classic binary simplification, all too common in these discussions :-/
*I would say this roughly aligns with Abbot's quoted comment.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Go on then - surprise me.
multitool
Shaman
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
It was a thoughtless thing for Abbott to say but she did apologise pretty promptly. What are we now, nearly a year on and still suspended?
Can't understand Hoyle not giving her the chance to speak last week when they were literally discussing something that involved her.
Can't understand Hoyle not giving her the chance to speak last week when they were literally discussing something that involved her.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
If she speaks on the subject she'll doubtless talk about how she's been treated by her own party, including the racist abuse of her documented in the Forde report that Starmer has done his best to bury. I presume you watched what they did to the SNP amendment? Why do people go on as if there's a mystery?
