Starmer's vision quest

[winjim]

I love the implication that everybody else voted first, then Elphicke stood at the entrance to the lobbies going eenie meenie minie mo before sauntering in.

 

[cookiemonster]

You think Labour knew that Elphicke asked Buckland to try and influence a judge?

What evidence do you have for this?

Many newspaper reports at the time. Private Eye covered this in detail.

Yes, of course they knew.

 

[winjim]

I love the implication that everybody else voted first, then Elphicke stood at the entrance to the lobbies going eenie meenie minie mo before sauntering in.

Plus of course given the nature of the amendment being voted on and her own personal history, it's a bit, well you know. Come the f*ck on, basically.

 

[multitool]

Many newspaper reports at the time. Private Eye covered this in detail.

Yes, of course they knew.

No, they didn't. Nobody knew until Buckland revealed it in the last few days.

 

[multitool]

Plus of course given the nature of the amendment being voted on and her own personal history, it's a bit, well you know. Come the f*ck on, basically.

The "implication" exists in your head only.

The only thing that matters is the end result.

 

[winjim]

Well done Starmer. You couldn't have passed this amendment without the support of your new MP Natalie Elphicke. Or (checks notes) George Galloway. Or Diane Abbott. Or Theresa May?

 

[Ian H]

Can anyone enlighten me as to at what point having a coherent political philosophy shades into 'tribalism'?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Writing a letter to a judge saying please be lenient with my husband versus asking the man in charge of the entire justice system to pressure the judge. One of these was a criminal attempt to pervert the course of justice (witnessed by Buckland...the real story here) and the other was not.

Yeah. "Precisely" the same, and of course your lack of surprise means you knew she would do this.

Amazing omniscience, TC. Why didn't you say something at the time?

She tried to get the LC to change the judge and trial venue. Buckland told her that off was the direction in which she should sod.

Not the first or last time a Lord Chancellor has done that. As far back as Hailsham there used to be attempts to get the LC to upset cases or do various other things that would be quite improper. Private Office would have a standard F Off letter to send.

Nothing to see and no further inquiry needed. Presumably the LC had a Civil Servant with him and notes were kept but I don't think there's much more to it.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The only thing that matters is the end result.

The motto of football managers, accountants and Russian/Chinese presidents everywhere.

Yes, it is true that the end result matters but when running a country the end result is not the election but how the government makes a difference to the country.

No one can deny Starmer is doing a good job at the election-winning stage of the game (although how much is due to the poor game management and own goals of the other side is arguable) but he is doing a piss-poor job of getting the crowd behind him.

There is a real lack of any enthusiasm, and/or ideas, on the part of voters over what exactly Labour will do in government other than they just don't like what the Tories have been doing and Labour cannot be worse, can they?

Perhaps Labour will be a big improvement on the Tories but I have never been a big fan of wishing or fatalism as reasons for voting in a government, although this time around I will be voting as much against the Tories as for Starmer's Labour.

One final thing about "the end result is all that matters" is that the various Gulf wars, Libya and Afghanistan...and more currently Israel's tactics to get rid of Hamas...give the lie to that theory.

 

[multitool]

The end result in this case was the vote being won and the government losing.

Had it taken place a week ago it would have been lost.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The end result in this case was the vote being won and the government losing.

Had it taken place a week ago it would have been lost.

in politics there is only one end result...how the country is governed...all the rest are skirmishes.

 

[icowden]

Well done Starmer. You couldn't have passed this amendment without the support of your new MP Natalie Elphicke. Or (checks notes) George Galloway. Or Diane Abbott. Or Theresa May?

Yes. That's how opposition works. By definition you can't defeat any government vote without support from at least some MPs in the ruling party and / or independent MPs.

 

[theclaud]

The motion passed by one single vote. 170 to 169.

Guess whose vote that was, Claudine?

Was it George Galloway's?

 

[multitool]

in politics there is only one end result...how the country is governed...all the rest are skirmishes.

You are aware of the distinction between legislature and executive, yes? One of these determines the other.

 

[multitool]

Was it George Galloway's?

George Galloway didn't cross the floor the week before.