Starmer's vision quest

[AndyRM]

It isn't a "way of looking at things". I haven't interpreted anything other than noting that 39 is a much bigger number than 29.

Of course there will be a myriad of reasons why. Here are my suggestions:

1. The SNP lost a leader to fraud allegations.

2. The next leader threw in the towel after a defeat

3. Labour are no longer led by Jeremy Corbyn and they are engaging in electoral politics rather than student politics. Regardless of how you feel about it, it seems to have some appeal to voters.

1 - She's been found not guilty pending further investigation

2 - Humza Yousaf was never really given a chance

3 - I'm aware. You keep banging on about Corbyn for whatever reason. You didn't like him, the electorate didn't either. That's absolutely not an issue for me.

 

[multitool]

It's weird how you make excuses for politicians you like (see 2. above) but not those you dislike.

 

[AndyRM]

It's weird how you make excuses for politicians you like (see 2. above) but not those you dislike.

My favourite current politician is Mhairi Black. Previously I really liked Mo Mowlam and Charles Kennedy.

I don't make excuses for the incompetence of politicians.

I kind of feel like you'll do anything to justify Starmer, but if that isn't the case then no worries.

 

[multitool]

I justify Starmer in so much as he is a centrist who will get elected, rather than a right-winger who will get elected. And yes currently that seems the best on offer. We are, after all, part of the offer. We subcontract our decision-making and executive to the small body of representatives who present themselves before us. They are we.

I'm not interested in people who won't get elected because they will not be in a position to do anything and there's not much point railing about 'the system' because it is, as it always has been, about who holds the power. You'll never change it from outside, and meanwhile, unless you take steps, the ruthless people will keep taking it from you.

theclaud will be along in a minute with her standard dirge about lack of ambition in politics, but she goes very quiet when asked what it is exactly how it can be delivered.

As I said, I'm interested in deliverables. Everything else is just noise.

 

[AndyRM]

I justify Starmer in so much as he is a centrist who will get elected, rather than a right-winger who will get elected. And yes currently that seems the best on offer. We are, after all, part of the offer. We subcontract our decision-making and executive to the small body of representatives who present themselves before us. They are we.

I'm not interested in people who won't get elected because they will not be in a position to do anything and there's not much point railing about 'the system' because it is, as it always has been, about who holds the power. You'll never change it from outside, and meanwhile, unless you take steps, the ruthless people will keep taking it from you.

theclaud will be along in a minute with her standard dirge about lack of ambition in politics, but she goes very quiet when asked what it is exactly how it can be delivered.

As I said, I'm interested in deliverables. Everything else is just noise.

This is all fair enough.

Starmer has been unable to say what his deliverables are though, or has gone back on things.

He has elements of being ruthless which is in a way commendable, but also means that some people justifiably question the direction of the Labour party.

 

[multitool]

He's not in power, so currently it's all about messaging.

My read of Starmer is that he's trying to balance two slightly conflicting things: find a way to get elected with enough seats to achieve something, but also manage down expectations because what he will inherit is a truly awful legacy with very little possibility of significant action in one term. He said as much last week when he talked about a ten year plan.

He's not wrong. I think we all know that deep systemic change will take a decade or more, otherwise all we'll get is expensive short-term fingers-in-the-dyke stuff.

 

[icowden]

Starmer has been unable to say what his deliverables are though, or has gone back on things.

I think he's juggling the concept of having an opinion against which faction he might upset if he says those things. Thus until he's elected he's trying to keep schtum.

 

[Rusty Nails]

To state the bleeding obvious Starmer is not inspirational...but he is calculating and astute enough to know that as an opposition leader coming up to a GE he will benefit more from the Tory party implosion and people, including former Labour voters, having had enough of the mess the Tories have made than from people being inspired by Labour who have been out of power for 15 years. His boringly effective campaign reflects this.

He is also realistic enough to know that there is not going to be an overnight transformational change following the problems that have been happening over 15 years so that he cannot raise expectations by promising the world. It suits him to have people expecting slow progress and to give him time.

Like it or not, and it is quite clear that some do not like it, this is the Labour Party and Leader we have and it is too late to change anything, and if that gets rid of this Tory government it can only be a positive. For those who crave excitement, knowing the Labour Party there will of course be opportunity for the discontented to bring about internal conflict again with some more battles to move the party once more further to the left.

 

[BoldonLad]

To state the bleeding obvious Starmer is not inspirational...but he is calculating and astute enough to know that as an opposition leader coming up to a GE he will benefit more from the Tory party implosion and people, including former Labour voters, having had enough of the mess the Tories have made than from people being inspired by Labour who have been out of power for 15 years. His boringly effective campaign reflects this.

He is also realistic enough to know that there is not going to be an overnight transformational change following the problems that have been happening over 15 years so that he cannot raise expectations by promising the world. It suits him to have people expecting slow progress and to give him time.

Like it or not, and it is quite clear that some do not like it, this is the Labour Party and Leader we have and it is too late to change anything, and if that gets rid of this Tory government it can only be a positive. For those who crave excitement, knowing the Labour Party there will of course be opportunity for the discontented to bring about internal conflict again with some more battles to move the party once more further to the left.

Agree 99.9%, my only quibble would be that the UK has been underline, or, building up problems (which ever term you prefer) for a lot longer than 15 years.

 

[cookiemonster]

It isn't a "way of looking at things". I haven't interpreted anything other than noting that 39 is a much bigger number than 29.

Of course there will be a myriad of reasons why. Here are my suggestions:

1. The SNP lost a leader to fraud allegations.

2. The next leader threw in the towel after a defeat

3. Labour are no longer led by Jeremy Corbyn and they are engaging in electoral politics rather than student politics. Regardless of how you feel about it, it seems to have some appeal to voters.

Labour’s electoral strategy is ‘Vote for us, we’re not the Tories.’

There are no policies, no vision, nothing. Zip.

That won’t last long before it bites them in the arse.

 

[icowden]

Labour’s electoral strategy is ‘Vote for us, we’re not the Tories.’
There are no policies, no vision, nothing. Zip.
That won’t last long before it bites them in the arse.

Why not? I think it's a pretty good argument. I'd vote for the Lettuce party on that basis.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Agree 99.9%, my only quibble would be that the UK has been underline, or, building up problems (which ever term you prefer) for a lot longer than 15 years.

Whilst that's undoubtedly true in many areas, the nation and its people were generally 'better off' before the Tories came to power.
The failed policies of Austerity, Brexit and Immigration have left the country poorer with less global standing. Mismanagement of Covid and general levels of 'corruption' and dishonesty within the Government has left people wondering what the fark has happened over that period.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Labour’s electoral strategy is ‘Vote for us, we’re not the Tories.’

There are no policies, no vision, nothing. Zip.

That won’t last long before it bites them in the arse.

I think Starmer knows he will have to deliver or he’s out…but first he has to get in and he seems to be doing OK so far with his electoral strategy.

If he wins and doesn't deliver he will deservedly get bitten in the arse no matter how much or how little he promises now.

 

[albion]

Deliver?
There is the ever worse climate change and expanding Russian sphere of influence to 'cope with'.
If we avoid a full blown European war and move back to a peace of sorts I think that will be a "delivered".

A big increase in European poverty is a certainty no matter who is in power.

 

[multitool]

Labour’s electoral strategy is ‘Vote for us, we’re not the Tories.’

There are no policies, no vision, nothing. Zip.

That won’t last long before it bites them in the arse.

You need to have a little read of this.

https://x.com/PickardJE/status/1792920913412853785