Starmer's vision quest

[multitool]

Riiiiiiight. It's OK to go round glad-handing Ratko Mladic during the Srebrenica massacre, as long as you also meet with a handful of approved Bosniaks. Got you.

Why not stick with talking about Gaza? Is your case not strong enough?

What do you feel Lammy can achieve by stamping his foot and calling Nethanyahu a genocidal murderer given that the Israelis are already utterly entrenched and feel the world is against them? Do you feel this will influence Nethanyahu? Have you heard of diplomacy?

Lammy could withdraw the miniscule amount of military relationships UK has with Israel. Will this stop Nethanyahu?

Both sides, Hamas and Nethanyahu need an off ramp. Lammy's useful input is likely to be persuading Nethanyahu to open aid routes.

Do you know what Lammy said in his meetings with Nethanyahu? Why are you making assumptions?

 

[winjim]

I'm not sure that was what was suggested. When politicians or monarchs meet world leaders there are protocols.
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The Duke of Windsor is famously never referred to as a Nazi sympathiser or collaborator.

OK how about Neville Chaimberlain instead? Still handshaking and not punching in the face.
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Chamberlain famous for his foreign policy which had the effect of stopping the Holocaust and preventing Europe's descent into war.


I'm not sure that history considers either of these people to have done entirely the right thing when it comes to their relationships with Hitler.

 

[Ian H]

OK how about Neville Chaimberlain instead? Still handshaking and not punching in the face.
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Okay. He did achieve 'peace in our time'.

 

[albion]

Yet Trump will 'achieve peace with Putin'.

 

[theclaud]

OK how about Neville Chaimberlain instead? Still handshaking and not punching in the face.
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As other have said, I'm not sure that Lammy modelling his actions on a couple of upper-class Nazis and and a famous appeaser is really a recommendation.

 

[theclaud]

Why not stick with talking about Gaza? Is your case not strong enough?

What do you feel Lammy can achieve by stamping his foot and calling Nethanyahu a genocidal murderer given that the Israelis are already utterly entrenched and feel the world is against them? Do you feel this will influence Nethanyahu? Have you heard of diplomacy?

Lammy could withdraw the miniscule amount of military relationships UK has with Israel. Will this stop Nethanyahu?

Both sides, Hamas and Nethanyahu need an off ramp. Lammy's useful input is likely to be persuading Nethanyahu to open aid routes.

Do you know what Lammy said in his meetings with Nethanyahu? Why are you making assumptions?

Ah, I see we've moved from "they can't do anything about it because they're not in power" to "it's not realistic to expect people in power to exercise it on behalf of those being slaughtered by their allies."

 

[multitool]

"they can't do anything about it because they're not in power"

Pretty much, yes. An opposition party in a minor power holds little sway with Israel, or indeed anyone.

to "it's not realistic to expect people in power to exercise it on behalf of those being slaughtered by their allies."

That isn't what I said, is it, Aurora. I mean Claudine.

 

[Ian H]

I think that, now Labour has actually been elected, it's safe to allow some criticism of the Labour government policies and actions.
Apart from 'looking busy'. I'm not sure what Lammy hopes to achieve by visiting Israel. Netanyahu is only concerned with staying in power and out of jail. The one thing that would stop him is if the USA stopped bankrolling the country's vast killing machine. Lammy might be more productive going and talking to the Americans - always assuming the UK actually wants to stop the slaughter.

 

[multitool]

I heard a long interview with Lisa Nandy this week who said that the situation in Israel/Palestine was discussed at high level on a daily basis.

TC will be along to snark that it is probably to work out how many weapons they can sell Israel. I suspect it is more along the lines of monitoring events and reactions and working out how/if they can influence events in the face of an intransigent Israeli leader who needs continual war to stay in power and out of prison.

Obviously TC, were she in government, would be able to stop the war immediately by making empty threats with absolutely no negative consequences for anyone.

Labour, including Starmer and Lammy have been calling for an immediate ceasefire for some time now.

 

[icowden]

As other have said, I'm not sure that Lammy modelling his actions on a couple of upper-class Nazis and and a famous appeaser is really a recommendation.

I think you went past the point quite some time ago.

The point is that when you are on a diplomatic visit, you have to shake hands and pose for pictures, whether you agree with the person you are visiting or not.

 

[Ian H]

I think you went past the point quite some time ago.

The point is that when you are on a diplomatic visit, you have to shake hands and pose for pictures, whether you agree with the person you are visiting or not.

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Trump isn't yet a war criminal. Brenda was nominal head of state and thus could be said to be responsible for sundry deaths in N Ireland, Iraq and other places. But I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make - do you have any more handshake pictures to entertain us with?

 

[icowden]

Trump isn't yet a war criminal. Brenda was nominal head of state and thus could be said to be responsible for sundry deaths in N Ireland, Iraq and other places. But I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make - do you have any more handshake pictures to entertain us with?

The point is that Brenda despised Trump. Lammy may well despise Bibi. That doesn't mean that you don't pose for the official photographs and do the handshakes.

 

[Ian H]

The point is that Brenda despised Trump. Lammy may well despise Bibi. That doesn't mean that you don't pose for the official photographs and do the handshakes.

I'm impressed by your knowledge of the dead queen's opinions, but I might have to repeat that Trump isn't a mass-murderer.

 

[winjim]

I think you went past the point quite some time ago.

The point is that when you are on a diplomatic visit, you have to shake hands and pose for pictures, whether you agree with the person you are visiting or not.

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Why do you have to? What does it achieve? You're not supposed to do war crimes and genocide but it still seems to be happening anyway, is a handshake going to solve that? I think diplomatic protocol goes out of the window when you're torturing people.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Here we go. Chas reads out Starmer's Vision Quest.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ns-rishi-sunak-conservatives-uk-politics-live

Fulfilling the previously mooted renting/eviction changes sounds promising. Have dropped the votes at 16.
Vat on private schools - 2 birds with one stone there I reckon. They'll be selling off their playing fields to build all these new houses we're getting.
Something about a new border control organisation but no details.
'Reset' of relationship with the EU. Could mean anything.

As always, more details needed before we can decide if it's anything to get excited about.

Oh, and if you're 15 you'll never be able to buy cigarettes.