Starmer's vision quest

[winjim]

Oh, and if you're 15 you'll never be able to buy cigarettes.

This was a system I thought of when I was a young teenager. But I don't see how it would work. Is an eighteen year old an adult? Are we creating an additional class of adult? And who enforces it? Is a sixteen year old in a corner shop expected to challenge a forty year old?

 

[icowden]

Is an eighteen year old an adult?

Yes

Are we creating an additional class of adult?

No

And who enforces it?

The law

Is a sixteen year old in a corner shop expected to challenge a forty year old?

Yes. I have required people much younger than me to authorise purchases of alcohol or paracetamol. This is no different.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This was a system I thought of when I was a young teenager. But I don't see how it would work. Is an eighteen year old an adult? Are we creating an additional class of adult? And who enforces it? Is a sixteen year old in a corner shop expected to challenge a forty year old?

I think the issue for some is that it creates a 2 tier system, unequal. We have 18, sometimes 16, 21, or even 25, as an arbitrary cut off date for sales of certain things, but it applies to all under or over 18's etc. It was kind of arbitrary but equal. Now there will eventually be some over 18's who can buy cigarettes and some who can't, which seems a bit unfair. On the other hand I hate seeing young people smoking.

 

[winjim]

Yes

No

The law

Yes. I have required people much younger than me to authorise purchases of alcohol or paracetamol. This is no different.

They're checking you're over 18, not over 40, and they are not 'the law'. The law is an abstract societal construct, they're just some poor teenager on minimum wage.

 

[AndyRM]

They're checking you're over 18, not over 40, and they are not 'the law'. The law is an abstract societal construct, they're just some poor teenager on minimum wage.

Thank you for reminding me of my second favourite Anthrax song!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bu5mnE65I8

 

[icowden]

They're checking you're over 18, not over 40, and they are not 'the law'. The law is an abstract societal construct, they're just some poor teenager on minimum wage.

I didn't say they were the law. I said that the law enforces it because it will be law. Whoever is on the till will ask, and proof of age will have to be supplied. That might be the tricky bit.

 

[winjim]

I didn't say they were the law. I said that the law enforces it because it will be law. Whoever is on the till will ask, and proof of age will have to be supplied. That might be the tricky bit.

So the person on the till enforces it, and we could have the ludicrous situation where a sixteen year old is asking a forty year old to prove that they are forty one.

 

[icowden]

I'm impressed by your knowledge of the dead queen's opinions, but I might have to repeat that Trump isn't a mass-murderer.

I think that's a matter of opinion and whether you count Covid deaths. It was reported by Flunky I think in the Eye that the Queen did not like Trump. He's easily dislikeable.

 

[icowden]

So the person on the till enforces it, and we could have the ludicrous situation where a sixteen year old is asking a forty year old to prove that they are forty one.

How is that more ludicrous than an 18 year old asking a 30 year old to prove they are over 18? (the approval test is "visibly older than 25" - if that isn't the case, ID has to be produced proving over 18 status).

 

[winjim]

How is that more ludicrous than an 18 year old asking a 30 year old to prove they are over 18? (the approval test is "visibly older than 25" - if that isn't the case, ID has to be produced proving over 18 status).

So once the smoking age rises to 33, the test will be visibly over 40?

 

[winjim]

Somewhere there's going to be a set of twins born either side of midnight and one will have to buy fags for the other all their lives.

 

[icowden]

So once the smoking age rises to 33, the test will be visibly over 40?

who knows? By the time it's got to 33 the price will probably be £40 a pack for something that makes you smell and gives you cancer. Perhaps people will just stop bothering.

 

[winjim]

who knows? By the time it's got to 33 the price will probably be £40 a pack for something that makes you smell and gives you cancer. Perhaps people will just stop bothering.

At least smoking's a bit sexy, not like vaping. Nobody can find vaping sexy.

I would expect there to come a tipping point when shops decide it's not worth bothering stocking them. I see they've done that with magazines, my local newsagent has replaced most of their racking with fridges and is selling more booze. I suppose you can't get that online.

Personally I'd like to see tobacco sold in specific licensed shops, along with legalised weed, available to any adult. Get it out of sweet shops and into a proper tobacconist.

 

[BoldonLad]

Didn’t notice anything in the King’s Speech about stopping tax dodging? I thought it was the means by which Rachel was going to fund investment in public services, without increasing taxes for us serfs.

 

[BoldonLad]

So once the smoking age rises to 33, the test will be visibly over 40?

Every time I buy alcohol at our local ASDA, and, use the self service tills, the machine challenges if I am old enough to buy it. Doesn’t cause a problem. 😊