Starmer's vision quest

[albion]

.....plus the BBC political department.

The gifts are chicken feed compared to all those 'gifted' high paid jobs.

 

[AndyRM]

Not really. All of the gifts have been declared in accordance with the rules as far as we are aware. There's a big difference between following the rules, or attempting to follow the rules and not trying to follow rules at all until you are caught out (see Boris Johnson for details).

I agree that it isn't a great look but most of the "noise" is from desperate Tory MPs, GB News and the Daily Fail trying to bleat out "Look- they are just as bad as us - look they accepted a suit and a taylor swift ticket" and strangely forgetting all of the absurdly much higher priced donations that Tory MPs were able to take (or not able and had to pay back once caught).

This is pretty much my take on it too.

 

[AuroraSaab]

As BL said it's not really the gifts, either the size or the nature, it's the hypocrisy.

 

[winjim]

I think that the Tories were a zillion times more corrupt than Labour are right now but I still don't think we should have to accept that corruption is built into our political system and just shrug our shoulders at it.

I have zero sympathy for anyone accepting free concert tickets if they're also implementing austerity measures. My kid would love to see Taylor Swift but availability notwithstanding we would need a private box or similar to accommodate her needs and there's no way on God's green Earth we'd be able to afford it. Probably couldn't even afford regular tickets right now.

 

[matticus]

As BL said it's not really the gifts, either the size or the nature, it's the hypocrisy.

Once they are nearly half as bad as the previous government, then talk to me about hypocrisy.

Until then it's just "But SIRRR, she did it too!!!!"

 

[icowden]

I have zero sympathy for anyone accepting free concert tickets if they're also implementing austerity measures.​

In their place, I really wouldn't give a flying wotsit about your sympathy. I'd be more concerned about being hung drawn and quartered by my wife and children if I'd turned them down just because the optics might not be great.

That said, I'm not opposed to changing the entire system. IIRC Mark Thomas once offered the suggestion via his Election Manifesto the proposal that:-

• We double the salary for all MPs.
• BUT...We also ban
  • All expenses
  • All gifts and donations
  • All lobbying
  • Any directorships for a period of 10 years after leaving office
  • Any job offers from companies directly connected with the office held

So you make it a very desirable occupation with a very good salary, but remove all of the stuff that allows you to enrich yourself outside of your job as a politician.

 

[winjim]

In their place, I really wouldn't give a flying wotsit about your sympathy. I'd be more concerned about being hung drawn and quartered by my wife and children if I'd turned them down just because the optics might not be great.

I'm assuming their spouse is going to vote for them no matter what.

 

[BoldonLad]

Not really. All of the gifts have been declared in accordance with the rules as far as we are aware. There's a big difference between following the rules, or attempting to follow the rules and not trying to follow rules at all until you are caught out (see Boris Johnson for details).

I agree that it isn't a great look but most of the "noise" is from desperate Tory MPs, GB News and the Daily Fail trying to bleat out "Look- they are just as bad as us - look they accepted a suit and a taylor swift ticket" and strangely forgetting all of the absurdly much higher priced donations that Tory MPs were able to take (or not able and had to pay back once caught).

I am not a Tory MP, GB News watcher/listener or Daily Fail reader, this coverage has been in Private Eye for some weeks, and, more recently on BBC News online.

As I have said before, I am not unduly concerned as to if they are operating within the rules or not, nor am I unduly concerned by the size/value of the gifts, I am concerned about what the donor(s) hope (or are) getting in return.

Way back in the mists of time, in the area in which I live, there was a bit of bribery and corruption going on (Poulson and T Dan Smith). People went to prison, if I recall. One of the things which amazed me was the trivial nature of some of the gifts/bribes over which people risked and/or lost their good name, and, even in some cases their liberty for.

 

[AndyRM]

I am not a Tory MP, GB News watcher/listener or Daily Fail reader, this coverage has been in Private Eye for some weeks, and, more recently on BBC News online.

True, but there's quite a big difference in coverage across those platforms.

 

[BoldonLad]

True, but there's quite a big difference in coverage across those platforms.

I will have to take your word for that, since, as I said, I don't follow GB News etc

 

[AndyRM]

I will have to take your word for that, since, as I said, I don't follow GB News etc

Their agenda is pretty widely known... But fair enough.

 

[Rusty Nails]

True, but there's quite a big difference in coverage across those platforms.

There are more right wing media sources in the UK (and I don't count BBC in them) so Labour will always have a tough press.

Snot fair, and any errors will be magnified, but that's life and they have to learn to deal with it. Pointless saying we were within the rules when the rules still appear to the public as if MPs are being a bit greedy...especially when, for their own political agenda, they are trumpeting how bad things are for the country

Despite the overblown furore this is not a major scandal and could be a blessing in that it happened so early in their term and they have plenty of time to learn from it.

 

[Ian H]

There are more right wing media sources in the UK (and I don't count BBC in them) so Labour will always have a tough press.

Snot fair, and any errors will be magnified, but that's life and they have to learn to deal with it. Pointless saying we were within the rules when the rules still appear to the public as if MPs are being a bit greedy...especially when, for their own political agenda, they are trumpeting how bad things are for the country

Despite the overblown furore this is not a major scandal and could be a blessing in that it happened so early in their term and they have plenty of time to learn from it.

It's amusing that we are (or at least I am) on page 404.

404 error codes are generated when a user attempts to access a webpage that does not exist, has been moved, or has a dead or broken link. The 404 error code is one of the most frequent errors a web user encounters.

 

[Bazzer]

View attachment 6736

Given Ratner said:
"People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total crap."
He compounded this by going on to remark that one of the sets of earrings was "cheaper than a prawn sandwich from Marks and Spencer's, but I have to say the sandwich will probably last longer than the earrings"."
Perhaps even labour top brass has its standards of acceptable gifts?

 

[winjim]

Given Ratner said:
"People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total crap."
He compounded this by going on to remark that one of the sets of earrings was "cheaper than a prawn sandwich from Marks and Spencer's, but I have to say the sandwich will probably last longer than the earrings"."
Perhaps even labour top brass has its standards of acceptable gifts?

I think that was the joke