Starmer's vision quest

[BoldonLad]

Agreed. Of course the honourable Tory MPs and the gentlemen of the press eagerly reporting this disgrace would never conceive of such a thing. Imagine a newspaper proprietor like Rupert Murdoch shamelessly exploiting their family or that nice Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees-Mogg. Perish the thought!

The fact that the lying, greedy (as we all know them) Tories did such things is a poor defence.

If we are going to accept that as a defence, why not keep the Tories in power?, after all, they were even better at getting their snouts in the trough.

The whole point is that Starmer promised "Change", not more of the same but slightly amateurish, until they get the hang of it.

 

[C R]

Starmer and Co knew that the tory press would look for anything to pin on them. In fact, that was the reason we were given for Starmer not being open about plans, so as not to give ammunition to the mail and the telegraph. That was given as an example of how good they were at strategy. Other examples were not criticising Israel, expelling Corbyn, the treatment of Diane Abbott ...

Their strategy seemed to be to be like the tories so they would be safe from the mail and the telegraph. Unfortunately for Starmer, the tory press are hypocrites, and they are perfectly happy to criticise Starmer for something they would have ignored in a tory.

So much for the brilliant strategy. The thing is, it should have been obvious taking those donations would look awful, and it should have been obvious that the tory press would have a field day with it, so being such brilliant strategists THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT.

 

[matticus]

So much for the brilliant strategy. The thing is, it should have been obvious taking those donations would look awful, and it should have been obvious that the tory press would have a field day with it, so being such brilliant strategists THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT.

I think there's a danger of* conflating
- Poor Political (capital-P) Strategy, with
- Unethical, immoral, corrupt behaviour.

(Ok ok, I admit it: I think it's gone well past "a danger of" for some people!)

 

[C R]

I think there's a danger of* conflating
- Poor Political (capital-P) Strategy, with
- Unethical, immoral, corrupt behaviour.

(Ok ok, I admit it: I think it's gone well past "a danger of" for some people!)

The political strategy was poor AND the behaviour is patently unethical.

 

[matticus]

The political strategy was poor AND the behaviour is patently unethical.

I've seen no evidence of the latter; they've received - and declared - donations and gifts.
You are free to judge those, and vote as you see fit; that is what makes the declaration rules a good part of a democratic system. We've had pretty much the same rules for decades. They are similar to other Western countries, and stricter than many.
(I happen to think that the Tory level of corruption over the 14 years was in an utterly different league to these donations/gifts, and that would determine my vote in a hypothetical snap election. You are entitled to disagree.

But you'd be an idiot. x
)

 

[C R]

I've seen no evidence of the latter; they've received - and declared - donations and gifts.
You are free to judge those, and vote as you see fit; that is what makes the declaration rules a good part of a democratic system. We've had pretty much the same rules for decades. They are similar to other Western countries, and stricter than many.
(I happen to think that the Tory level of corruption over the 14 years was in an utterly different league to these donations/gifts, and that would determine my vote in a hypothetical snap election. You are entitled to disagree.

But you'd be an idiot. x
)

As I said before, we should aspire to something better than not as bad as the tories.

 

[monkers]

Don't look at me I voted Green.

 

[Ian H]

No one should ever be surprised when disappointed by a Labour government.

 

[Rusty Nails]

No one should ever be surprised when disappointed by a Labour government.

FTFY

 

[theclaud]

Agreed. Of course the honourable Tory MPs and the gentlemen of the press eagerly reporting this disgrace would never conceive of such a thing. Imagine a newspaper proprietor like Rupert Murdoch shamelessly exploiting their family or that nice Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees-Mogg. Perish the thought!

 

[theclaud]

Apart from being anti Starmer, do you actually have any other political persuasion?

This is a bit rich coming from the forum's Mr Cryptic.

 

[Ian H]

 

[matticus]

Don't look at me I voted Green.

What are they going to bribe your lot with:
Name a wind-farm after you?
Organic fertiliser?
"I love the planet ❤️ " ethically sourced cashmere T-shirts?

 

[monkers]

What are they going to bribe your lot with:
Name a wind-farm after you?
Organic fertiliser?
"I love the planet ❤️ " ethically sourced cashmere T-shirts?

They aren't trying to bribe me with anything, that's why I voted for them. Instead of offering bribes they send begging letters! This is because they don't take dirty money from tax-dodging millionaires and billionaires.

 

[AndyRM]

They aren't trying to bribe me with anything, that's why I voted for them. Instead of offering bribes they send begging letters! This is because they don't take dirty money from tax-dodging millionaires and billionaires.

They sent you letters? I feel left out.