Starmer's vision quest

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icowden

Squire
What we all knew since he became PM- Starmer has actually gone an done it.
[spoiler alert] He hasn't.

The sentencing council which is entirely independent from the Government has recommended that a pre-sentence report be obtained if the offender is:
  • at risk of first custodial sentence and/or at risk of a custodial sentence of 2 years or less (after taking into account any reduction for guilty plea)
  • a young adult (typically 18-25 years; see further information below at section 3)
  • female (see further information below at section 3)
  • from an ethnic minority, cultural minority, and/or faith minority community
  • pregnant or post-natal
  • sole or primary carer for dependent relatives

PSRs are also necessary in all cases that would benefit from an assessment of one or more of the following: the offender’s dangerousness and risk of harm, the nature and causes of the offender’s behaviour, the offender’s personal circumstances and any factors that may be helpful to the court in considering the offender’s suitability for different sentences or requirements.

A PSR gives the court comprehensive information about the offender so that the court can impose a sentence which is appropriate and effective.

For example a PSR is recommended for female offenders as female offending is commonly linked to mental health issues, substance misuse, being a victim of domestic abuse or financial / homelessness issues. If imprisoned women are more likely to be a long way from their support network and when released are more likely to have no accommodation and to be unemployed. Care of children and elderly relatives can also be an issue when a woman is locked up.

A PSR doesn't change the sentence or wave a magic "you are not going to prison" wand. It gives the Judge more information so that they can ensure that the most appropriate sentence is given to punish, rehabilitate and avoid reoffending. Some would argue that a PSR should be done in all cases.

Oh - and when listening to Robert Jenrick bear in mind that his only connection with the law was as a solicitor for 6 years working in corporate law. He has no knowledge of criminal law other than what was covered during his law degree. He wasn't good enough to be a Barrister.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Jenrick has decided that truth does not matter in his desperation to line himself up as next Tory leader. If it's not blatant misrepresentation such as this, it's blatant racism.

He's banking that there are enough morons around who will accept what he says without stopping to think.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Imagine being so utterly dim that you can't read the semiotics of this 😆😆😆

Screenshot_20250306_070600_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

icowden

Squire
Yeh, I agree, the next generation should benefit. That's why I'd tax assets over £250k at 100%. I'd abolish student fees, fund further education properly, and provide bursaries to trainee doctors and nurses.

I agree with you but would set the threshold higher as it doesn't take into account the disparity between North and South. 250K would tax pretty much everyone in Surrey and London.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
I agree with you but would set the threshold higher as it doesn't take into account the disparity between North and South. 250K would tax pretty much everyone in Surrey and London.

Aye, but the point is that Shithead is always going on about hard work and earning it, but conversely wants his children to inherit his money, therefore not having to work for it.

In hindsight I might set the threshold at £250k for each sibling, but these are details. If we are serious about an equitable society within a meritocracy, then we simply must drastically reduce the earnings & wealth gaps, eliminate poverty and homelessness, ensuring that we produce a healthy and educated population within the best models of democracy and equality that we can. This is true statecraft.
 
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icowden

Squire
In hindsight I might set the threshold at £250k for each sibling, but these are details. If we are serious about an equitable society within a meritocracy, then we simply must drastically reduce the earnings / wealth gap, eliminate poverty and homelessness, ensuring that we produce a healthy and educated population within the best models of democracy and equality that we can. This is true statecraft.
I also think we could start with the Billionaires. Just give them a certificate when they get to a billion dollars that says "you won capitalism" and any earnings after that go to benefitting the country.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
I also think we could start with the Billionaires. Just give them a certificate when they get to a billion dollars that says "you won capitalism" and any earnings after that go to benefitting the country.

I feel you are too generous. Even £10M seems generous enough to me. In tandem to this there are more things to be done, repatriate British money that is languishing in tax havens (most of them are British territories, so somewhat achievable) and organise debt forgiveness on a international basis - there's no advantage is keeping countries in high levels of debt when it is clear it can never be repaid.
 

Psamathe

Well-Known Member
Yeh, I agree, the next generation should benefit. That's why I'd tax assets over £250k at 100%. I'd abolish student fees, fund further education properly, and provide bursaries to trainee doctors and nurses.

I agree with you but would set the threshold higher as it doesn't take into account the disparity between North and South. 250K would tax pretty much everyone in Surrey and London.
I certainly agree about introducing a wealth tax but unsure 100% would achieve anything and the threshold would include a vast number of home owners across the UK eg average house price in Manchester is above that threshold.

When I lived in France they then had a wealth tax (ISF) and it was on a sliding scale ie low rate above a certain threshold increasing rates at higher thresholds (marginal bands). don't know why they discarded the tax or what impact that had.

Ian
 
When I lived in France they then had a wealth tax (ISF) and it was on a sliding scale ie low rate above a certain threshold increasing rates at higher thresholds (marginal bands). don't know why they discarded the tax or what impact that had.

Ian

In short, in both France and Austria, they didn't raise that much tax (2% of revenue in France) and weren't worth the hassle.

"Denis Healey, then Labour chancellor, wrote in his memoirs: “We had committed ourselves to a wealth tax; but in five years I found it impossible to draft one which would yield enough revenue to be worth the administrative cost and political hassle.”

This is from an investor site so obviously anti-wealth tax but gives an overview of the French figures, including claiming 12,000 millionaires left.

https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/content/c2a0a5ab-11a8-50a3-a098-240f320fc795
 
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