Starmer's vision quest

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Oh, you mean the people who can afford to help out a little but get all mad about tax and do their best to avoid it, then moan about Britain being broken whilst living abroad in a tax haven, or contemplating doing so?

Those people?

To be clear I have no problem with people earning a lot of money, but the when it gets to the point of avarice and hypocrisy I get annoyed.

Deciding the point at which “avarice and hypocrisy” sets in is, perhaps, a bit tricky. Taking (say) the “richest” 20% into the net catches some really big fish, but, also some who didn’t expect to be there.

It is the old “other people paying more” is a good idea.
 

bobzmyunkle

Veteran
people aligned with left wing politics will sneer at the idea that people with mobile capital will quit the UK if taxes to go high
No sneering here, just a request for evidence.
Do you have any?
 

Shortfall

Regular
Do we know it's the rich that have left? Or that they have left due to taxation?
Do you have a breakdown of the numbers and reasons? Or have you just been reading the Telegraph again.

are you confusing me with someone else? I don't read the Telegraph. Do you think It's the poor who are leaving? We can trade evidence that supports our arguments (and there's already been a raft of stuff on here about millionaires leaving) but frankly I can't be àrsed as it will likely be ignored or dismissed. The acid test about who's right will be the state of the economy a few years hence.
 

Shortfall

Regular
The UK isn't f*cked though, no matter how hard you'd like it to be.

How can you lose out on theoretical tax?

I don't know what you mean by theoretical tax but people with mobile capital will move it to where it's treated more favourably. Similarly people who pay a lot of tax but aren't necessarily millionaires will also move to countries where they are taxed less heavily. There is a precedent for this, it's not like it hasn't happened before.

Edit. Whether we're fücked is up for debate but the omens aren't good for the economy of the state of the nation from where I'm stood.
 

Pblakeney

Veteran
I brought the left into it because it's a trope you often see on forums like this or on X where people aligned with left wing politics will sneer at the idea that people with mobile capital will quit the UK if taxes to go high. Testing the idea to destruction means that when they do go and the country loses all the tax they would've paid then they'll realise too late that it wasn't a good idea and the UK will be even more fücked than it already is.

People with mobile capital have already moved their money out of the country to avoid taxes, or have it in tax-free investments.
All that might be lost will be some discretionary spending.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
I don't know what you mean by theoretical tax but people with mobile capital will move it to where it's treated more favourably. Similarly people who pay a lot of tax but aren't necessarily millionaires will also move to countries where they are taxed less heavily. There is a precedent for this, it's not like it hasn't happened before.

Edit. Whether we're fücked is up for debate but the omens aren't good for the economy of the state of the nation from where I'm stood.

"if taxes go to high".

That's theoretical.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
Deciding the point at which “avarice and hypocrisy” sets in is, perhaps, a bit tricky. Taking (say) the “richest” 20% into the net catches some really big fish, but, also some who didn’t expect to be there.

It is the old “other people paying more” is a good idea.

No, it really isn't.

They are simple definitions.

As I said, I'm not against people making money and my feelings about how that wealth can be used are pretty clear.
 

bobzmyunkle

Veteran
are you confusing me with someone else? I don't read the Telegraph. Do you think It's the poor who are leaving? We can trade evidence that supports our arguments (and there's already been a raft of stuff on here about millionaires leaving) but frankly I can't be àrsed as it will likely be ignored or dismissed. The acid test about who's right will be the state of the economy a few years hence.

No evidence then.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
The migration of UK citizens has already happened, maybe not internationally, English is a minority language in London

Dear Sir,

I was in London recently and was completely unable to converse with shop workers, transport staff or my daughter’s neighbours. Trying to get a coffee or a beer would have been impossible without my online translation app. For God’s sake does no one speak the Queen’s King’s English any more.

Disgusted,

Tunbridge Wells
 

briantrumpet

Legendary Member
I'd tend to avoid articles that quote Shakespeare, but this is an extremely good one on Labour's predicament.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/nov/19/keir-starmer-labour-leadership

Wilful detachment from so much of what defines politics explains the reliance on McSweeney, whose strength in opposition was controlling party machinery and deploying it with ruthless efficiency. But the methods that worked in the run-up to July 2024 are not relevant to the challenge of running a country. The government isn’t a giant constituency party to be captured by a well-organised clique, then purged of irksome, wrong-thinking members.

[...]

It is the sound of failure to define Starmerism as anything more than a sequence of tactics for clinging on, warning that this is as good as it gets, betting that enough people will dread the thought of Nigel Farage in Downing Street to give Labour a second term. It is the defence of painful policy compromise as the means to an end, where the destination is just a labyrinth of endless means.

It is hard to summon loyalty to such a cause. And most Labour MPs have tried. They have stuck with the party line, defended it on the doorstep, obeyed the whips, believed assurances that their concerns were heard, feasted on crumbs of improvement in the prime minister’s performances, and been made to feel like mugs for extending so much benefit of the doubt. Not mutinous by disposition, they see mutiny as the only option left.

Regicide is fraught with risk, but is it riskier than pretending that the current ruler has answers to big questions that he never even names? Edgar’s law invites caution in ousting a sitting prime minister. The replacement could always be worse. But in the closing lines of King Lear, Edgar also articulates the quality so craved by Labour MPs in a future leader because it is painfully absent in the present one. “The weight of this sad time we must obey; Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: C R

Rusty Nails

Country Member
“betting that enough people will dread the thought of Nigel Farage in Downing Street to give Labour a second term. It is the defence of painful policy compromise as the means to an end, where the destination is just a labyrinth of endless means.”

The problem is that this tactic worked when Labour won because people dreaded the thought of the Tories winning, and Starmer won the election by saying nothing, so he probably thinks it’s a good strategy.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: C R

CXRAndy

Shaman
One very large group of those leaving and more considering leaving is doctors - from my reading it isn't about tax.

Of course it is, they get better pay and working conditions. More money in their pocket.

Seen as many locate to Australia and a like, better weather too.
 
Top Bottom