Starmer's vision quest

[BoldonLad]

I think that's a bit unfair. This was a recommendation of the Jay report that campaigners have been wanting implemented for years. None of the recommendations have been fully implemented by the Tories, nor were slated to be fully implemented by Labour.
If Musk drawing attention to what is a national disgrace got this speeded up, if only through embarrassment, I don't think that's pulling strings. It's bowing to pressure, which is not uncommon in politics, often relies on one person highlighting it, and isn't necessarily a bad thing, eg double jeopardy law, offender disclosure scheme.

I didn’t say the law was a bad thing, but having your strings pulled (or, appearing to) by Musk isn’t a good look.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Should we care how it looks if it's the right thing to do? The more light shone on this scandal the better. The sentencing transcripts being released started it but Musk has done more in a week in terms of highlighting it than the victims have been able to do in years.

 

[Psamathe]

I didn’t say the law was a bad thing, but having your strings pulled (or, appearing to) by Musk isn’t a good look.

My personal view is that Musk hasn't even appreciated there are victims through this. He's leapt on this to push his own far-right anti-immigrant ideology.

A far-right unelected oligarch feeling entitled to try and control politicians in other countries beggars belief. He's just trying to push people to his current political agenda. He started adopting Reform as it's the furthest right UK party but then appreciated even Farage isn't extreme enough for him so he's trying to push it into EDL.

But it does raise to many questions to which there are obvious answers society will yet again do nothing about eg when so many depend on food banks, so many can't get proper medical treatment why do we allow people to accumulate such vast wealth and then allow them power to dictate how society runs.

Ian

 

[matticus]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ford-survivors-musk-attack-letter-women-girls

A group of victims of gender-based violence has criticised Elon Musk for his remarks attacking Jess Phillips, saying the safeguarding minister had “devoted her life to fighting for women and girls”.

In a letter shared with the Guardian the seven women, including three survivors of the Telford sexual abuse scandal, came to the Labour MP’s defence and said that there was “no one in public life who has done more to support victims and survivors and to advocate for their interests”.

Their intervention came after Musk, the billionaire Tesla boss who is in line for a senior role in Donald Trump’s administration, posted on his platform, X, that Phillips should be jailed and called her a “rape genocide apologist

 

[AuroraSaab]

A far-right unelected oligarch feeling entitled to try and control politicians in other countries beggars belief. He's just trying to push people to his current political agenda.

Soros and Gates do the same, mostly through donations, grants, and funding of pressure groups. They just don't promote their views oveetly on social media. It's naive to think Musk is the only one seeking influence.

A group of victims of gender-based violence has criticised Elon Musk for his remarks attacking Jess Phillips, saying the safeguarding minister had “devoted her life to fighting for women and girls”.

Other victims feel very differently and feel Phillips has let them down badly. Given that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of victims, they are bound to have different experiences and opinions on how those they appealed to responded.

 

[multitool]

. Other victims feel very differently and feel Phillips has let them down badly. Given that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of victims, they are bound to have different experiences and opinions on how those they appealed to responded.

Well I've had a look and I can't find any criticisms by actual victims of Jess Phillips

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...rowser&q=victims+criticise+jess+phillips#ip=1

I'm not saying there is none, but if there is I can't find it.

As for Musk, I get the strong sense that the interests of the actual victims are as far from his mind as they are from Yaxley-Lennon's. God knows what is wrong with Musk, but there is certainly something wrong with the man.

 

[AuroraSaab]

She's being criticised because she has refused a national inquiry. You can't be saying no victims want a national inquiry, because that is absolutely not the case.


View: https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1876294847302369722

 

[Rusty Nails]

But it does raise to many questions to which there are obvious answers society will yet again do nothing about eg when so many depend on food banks, so many can't get proper medical treatment why do we allow people to accumulate such vast wealth and then allow them power to dictate how society runs.

While there is truth in this it takes us not one inch towards changing it. Who is society? Once you have defined who society is how do "we" get it to change, since "we" are part of that society and therefore part of the problem? Do we have a revolution, and who is going to start it...more importantly who runs the country/world after the revolution and how can we trust them to run it properly? "We" have the power to vote in or out governments so why do "we" keep voting for governments who change nothing in your statement.

Governmental systems invented by people will always reflect the strengths and weaknesses of those people and allow the strongest/greediest (for power or wealth) to set the agenda. In short the ordinary people are at their mercy whatever they do.

I am not really having a go at your post just rambling incoherently about the futility of shouting at the moon.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Looks like Zuckerberg is reducing moderating on Meta and moving to a Community Notes type system.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna186468

Good to see he's not reducing moderation of cse material or the posts promoting drugs or terrorism.

 

[Rusty Nails]

She's being criticised because she has refused a national inquiry. You can't be saying no victims want a national inquiry, because that is absolutely not the case.


View: https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1876294847302369722

I understand the short-term party political reasons why GBNews, the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Badenoch etc are pushing for a national inquiry and highlighting the views of some victims who would want one, but why weren't these same bodies pushing so vociferously for the Tories to implement the findings and recommendations of the Jay report which have been around two years?

This smacks of political opportunism and jumping on the bandwagon of the worst sort. It is more important that corrective action is taken based on the inquiries held so far as quickly as possible rather than the whole affair being pushed into the long grass by yet another long-running national inquiry.

It is shameful that one of the spurs to this political opportunism is fear over the rantings of a wealthy man-child who in all probability knows the square root of f-all about the back story of these grooming gangs and the politics of this country, and cares even less.

 

[AuroraSaab]

.....why weren't these same bodies pushing so vociferously for the Tories to implement the findings and recommendations of the Jay report which have been around two years?

Same reason Labour, local councils, the police weren't pushing. Nobody in positions of power actually cares that much and it's too much of a can of worms. It suits them better for it to quietly go away.

This smacks of political opportunism and jumping on the bandwagon of the worst sort. It is more important that corrective action is taken based on the inquiries held so far as quickly as possible rather than the whole affair being pushed into the long grass by yet another long-running national inquiry.

You can both implement the current recommendations and have a national inquiry that addresses the areas in which the Jay report fell short.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Same reason Labour, local councils, the police weren't pushing. Nobody in positions of power actually cares that much and it's too much of a can of worms. It suits them better for it to quietly go away.

That doesn't answer why the sudden furore and impetus. A national inquiry is amost always a guaranteed way for no positive action to be taken or delayed indefinitely. "the first one hasn't been implemented so let's have a bigger one that we can fail to implement"

You can both implement the current recommendations and have a national inquiry that addresses the areas in which the Jay report fell short

Then first push to have the current recommendations implemented, and then find out what, if any areas it fell short in. Having a national inquiry to address the issues it fell short in without first implementing those that it did recommend is nonsensical. Or perhaps we should make plans for another inquiry to address the issues that the first one subsequently and inevitably will fall short in.

 

[multitool]

She's being criticised because she has refused a national inquiry. You can't be saying no victims want a national inquiry, because that is absolutely not the case.

I literally said "I'm not saying there is none, but if there is I can't find it."

The example you give seems to be an outlier. If there were plenty of victims asking for yet another inquiry I would probably have heard about it. What Marlon West does not discuss is what advantage he feels another inquiry would confer over Prof Jay's inquiry. Given that recommendations from her inquiry have not been implemented, perhaps his focus should be on that.

I note also that Marlon West has accused Starmer of labelling him as "far right". Perhaps Mr West's comprehension skills are a little lacking as this is emphatically not what Starmer was getting at.

 

[multitool]

Having dug a little further I have much more sympathy with Marlon West's viewpoint given that his experiences are relatively recent. His daughter was still being groomed up to 2 years ago.

This interview, from 11 months ago, and therefore during the previous administration is worth a watch because it places the issue as non-partisan and puts the focus back on the victims rather than hard-right chances trying to exploit the suffering of others.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Qp7gGhElY

 

[AuroraSaab]

Then first push to have the current recommendations implemented, and then find out what, if any areas it fell short in. Having a national inquiry to address the issues it fell short in without first implementing those that it did recommend is nonsensical.

We know what areas it fell short in. It wasn't wide ranging enough. It covered only a few towns when gangs were operating in many towns and cities. It skirted around cultural sensitivities. We now know councils and organisations withheld relevant information from Jay.

This is probably the biggest social scandal in the UK in the last 50 years. It affected thousands of girls. We can't ensure it doesn't happen again if we aren't willing to fully investigate what occurred.

Implementing the Jay recommendations won't shed any more light on the institutions and individuals who failed these girls. Only a new far ranging enquiry will do that.