Strike!

[Deleted member 49]

Firstly it wasn't a democratic vote, secondly a union supporting or opposing a political decision will affect the way its members vote, that's the point, thirdly I'm not discrediting the strike and fourthly and most importantly I paid subs to Unite for about fifteen years and for that I got a pay freeze, a devalued pension, lost pay through striking, and Brexit. I would literally be better off if I'd never joined, to the tune of about two and a half grand.

No one twisted your arm to join a union....the same way nobody forced which way to vote in the Brexit referendum.It was nothing to do with a union.Do you not make your own choices,because I do.
Brexit happened and the bickering and crying after gave us a Tory goverment.What you going to do now that not one of the major party's has any interest in re joining ?

 

[winjim]

No one twisted your arm to join a union....the same way nobody forced which way to vote in the Brexit referendum.It was nothing to do with a union.Do you not make your own choices,because I do.
Brexit happened and the bickering and crying after gave us a Tory goverment.What you going to do now that not one of the major party's has any interest in re joining ?

The RMT advised its members to vote leave. Workers pay subs to the unions in order for people to look at the political situation and advise accordingly. I believe that the RMT in giving that advice was acting contrary to the interests of its members.

If workers don't take advice from the people they pay then what's the point. Again, I personally am worse off financially from having joined a union.

 

[Mugshot]

Brexit happened and the bickering and crying after gave us a Tory goverment.

Little bit of re-writing history going on here I think.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Who's leaving people stranded ? They were warned before the strike.

So if health workers do ever go on strike, you will, I assume, not use a hospital if you have a stroke on the day of the strike? I mean you will know in advance the date of the strikes.

If your partner is in ITU on the day of the strike, you will be understanding at the funeral and think at least they died in a just fight for better conditions which happened as a result of a ballot?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Little bit of re-writing history going on here I think.

Yea you keep saying that....and I keep saying that the second referendum pledge which gifted the Tories 52 Labour leave seats was the reason.

 

[Deleted member 49]

So if health workers do ever go on strike, you will, I assume, not use a hospital if you have a stroke on the day of the strike? I mean you will know in advance the date of the strikes.

If your partner is in ITU on the day of the strike, you will be understanding at the funeral and think at least they died in a just fight for better conditions which happened as a result of a ballot?

Is that the best you can come up with 🙄

 

[Deleted member 49]

The RMT advised its members to vote leave. Workers pay subs to the unions in order for people to look at the political situation and advise accordingly. I believe that the RMT in giving that advice was acting contrary to the interests of its members.

If workers don't take advice from the people they pay then what's the point. Again, I personally am worse off financially from having joined a union.

Advise ! Are you not big enough to make your own mind up ?
I voted remain....there was plenty of reasons why I could of voted leave but I didn't.
It wasn't my union that made my choice.

 

[fozy tornip]

It's been a while since I learned about common deductive argument forms, syllogisms and the like. But perhaps I can have a rusty stab at it.

If Craig, then risible bollocks.
Craig. Therefore risible bollox.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

In Craig's defence, he claims to be a nurse so may well work in the NHS.

How strange, why would you not believe I am a nurse?

You are though quite correct about the pointlessness of most health unions. Quite a few of our 'unions' are confused by their own identities as to whether they are trade unions, regulatory bodies or professional bodies. They also are panicked by being seen as a bit elitist and let all sorts in who probably should be in other unions.

 

[winjim]

Advise ! Are you not big enough to make your own mind up ?
I voted remain....there was plenty of reasons why I could of voted leave but I didn't.
It wasn't my union that made my choice.

I'm confused as to where you stand on the politics of the labour movement. You don't think that trade unions should be giving their members political advice?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Is that the best you can come up with 🙄

But if people shouldn't use trains when there is a strike on, and the impact of those delays just have be sucked up by the public, how does it not work the same for all the other public sector workers who may logically go on strike for more money?

Or, are you happy for trains to go on strike because you don't use them much, teachers can go because you haven't school age children, civil servants because you have a passport and postmen because you mostly get emails. But if something may actually cause you some serious inconvenience or even kill you, that is different and it gets a rolly eyes because you can't actually explain why your support suddenly wains for those groups?

 

[Mugshot]

Yea you keep saying that....and I keep saying that the second referendum pledge which gifted the Tories 52 Labour leave seats was the reason.

But more people voted for a second ref/remain party than a leave party, so what was it stopped them from voting Labour, just the second ref pledge?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

It's been a while since I learned about common deductive argument forms, syllogisms and the like. But perhaps I can have a rusty stab at it.

If Craig, then risible bollocks.
Craig. Therefore risible bollox.

Ah, so nothing to add to the debate then? Just a bit of light personal abuse because that is easier than having to think about the situation.

Tell us, would you mind your child dying because the people who should be treating it was outside with a placard for an extra 7% pay? We all know that the strikes shouldn't happen, pay should be better and we want a decent settlement blah blah blah, but if that isn't forthcoming, you would be happy for the nurse to walk away from your child on life support meaning they would die? You would hold no animosity at all towards the nurse who downed tools and left you to watch your child flatline with no hope of resuscitation?

The train staff do a safety critical job, but there are not 000s of deaths on the DLR are there, or are they covered up? Automation is coming, jobs will go, accept and move on or go on strike is the choice, it has happened numerous times through history (think of all the steam train firemen that went when diesel engines arrived). The RMT has chosen strikes, do they think that will slow down or speed up automation? They are dinosaurs in a high-tech era, simple as that. But you are happy to back these striking neanderthals, right up until it one of my colleagues walks away from that life support machine is my guess.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I'm confused as to where you stand on the politics of the labour movement. You don't think that trade unions should be giving their members political advice?

I'm confused what Labour actually are at the moment your right !
‘I was all for this RMT fella and then I discovered his union supported Brexit’
Feck half the country did ! As a strong supporter of unions why didn't I vote leave?
As a side not RMT aren't my union really and plenty of unions wanted remain.

 

[winjim]

I'm confused what Labour actually are at the moment your right !
‘I was all for this RMT fella and then I discovered his union supported Brexit’
Feck half the country did ! As a strong supporter of unions why didn't I vote leave?
As a side not RMT aren't my union really and plenty of unions wanted remain.

See this is where I'm confused. I said labour movement, not Labour party. You seem like you want the current Labour party to be more left wing which to me means closer ties with the labour movement and the trade unions. But then you say you think people shouldn't take political advice from a trade union. So what do you think the relationship should be between the labour movement and trade unionism, and the Labour party as a wider political entity? And should the unions be giving political advice or not?




I'm aware that there are contributors to this forum who are much more knowledgeable than I am about the history of the Labour party and left wing politics...