The UK’s broken asylum system

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We do. We demand that they follow our laws and ask that they respect and integrate with our culture. Where I do think we fall down is in not also finding out and welcoming aspects of the culture of the person who has come here. Often there is a negative reaction to "foreigners" due to lack of understanding or the idea that they aren't going to become integrated.
Do we? i see our laws adjusted to the new normal off some norms that we didn't used to have, including our justice system accounting for those who are intolerant to our laws claiming it's cultural so demanding to follow our laws it's at least not the full picture we also adjust our laws to ''new'' cultures.(just an observation)
We allowed and government funded the building of many types of religious buildings, many way of practicing religion, there is an area in London called Chinatown.. so i don't think i can agree with your assertion we are not welcoming.(and in the rest of western europe it pretty much the same)
Sure there are always people who think we should do more etc. but as in many other countries they would be either shot or send right back just for crossing the border, i think at some point we would have to say ''this is what were offering take it or leave it.''
I think if some has terrorist intention and is on his way with a backpack full of knifes it's an indication that integration did work if he is caught because his family called/informed the authorities and he was arrested.
Having said that the other side of the medal is that we now have honor killings and the first gay Muslim couple are having to fear for their lives, gay in general or seeing the way integration isn't really working judging by the abuse they get.

But on the other hand we also see at some points a parallels society with covid for example in certain turkish area, people began to wear mask and such after the Turkish president said they need to do it.

On the other hand are politics seemingly changing to one liners, quick quip shirt little sentences that do well with the electorate but don't change really much. etc. etc. although it may gain some popularity on the short term, on the longer term it makes to solution more difficult. It are the same tactics populist often use, because who care about the long term if your no longer in politics by then anyway. (see Farage, Johnny robinsson) Because if your short term claim was ''all those foreigner's come here for our jobs'' those foreigner's are not really on your side anymore.
But on the other side or politicians don't really counter those short-sides arguments, they take them over water them down(Cameron's eu citizens can't vote on the eu referendum for example) so instead of taking an firm stance, they say it's kind of ok.

There are many media claiming how welcome we are towards migrants but on the other hand if a permanent or temporarily shelter is announced it often leads to protest, just as many people are very welcoming to migrants unless they are housed next to them.

Is that racist or fear of the unknown? i would say a little bit of both but also a result of the goverments failing always affecting the normal/lowest incomes the hardest, leading to a certain distrust which is if you look at all the factors expected but would it really be racist? I think it's just a bucket that's almost full that's about to tip over. How many people are there not in n situation where they are forced to pay private rent rpices for a dump of a house only to see the goverment failing to solve the social housing issues, and no real prospect of ever buying an house with the current prices and than an Farage or similar tell you those migrants ''get everything for free'' i think everyone would have an tendency to say or argree with Farage and the likes short term soluttions


We often see "well meaning" ideas that actually create a bigger problem than they solve. My local Sainsbury for example decided that in the cold meats aisle they should create a "Polish food" section. This got a lot of complaints - not least because it was creating difference rather than harmony. The same isle has German meats, Italian meats, Spanish meats etc but there is no need to have it is a separately marked out section by country. People are quite able to tell the difference between ham, chorizo, Kiełbasa piaszczańska etc
think the issues with those are more pressing with foods from which the origins are a bit more contended let's say. I think the country diciations are more made for people who want to try something from a other country but don't known where it comes from. i prefer to go to a polish or whatever country i want tpo try food from shop but mileage off course may vary.
The British are just as bad when abroad - for example the French hate British ex-pats who move to France and then refuse to learn the language etc.
The dutch also in terms of known for not spending that much they take half the supermarket with them.
 

All uphill

Well-Known Member
Do we? i see our laws adjusted to the new normal off some norms that we didn't used to have, including our justice system accounting for those who are intolerant to our laws claiming it's cultural so demanding to follow our laws it's at least not the full picture we also adjust our laws to ''new'' cultures.(just an observation)
We allowed and government funded the building of many types of religious buildings, many way of practicing religion, there is an area in London called Chinatown.. so i don't think i can agree with your assertion we are not welcoming.(and in the rest of western europe it pretty much the same)
Sure there are always people who think we should do more etc. but as in many other countries they would be either shot or send right back just for crossing the border, i think at some point we would have to say ''this is what were offering take it or leave it.''
I think if some has terrorist intention and is on his way with a backpack full of knifes it's an indication that integration did work if he is caught because his family called/informed the authorities and he was arrested.
Having said that the other side of the medal is that we now have honor killings and the first gay Muslim couple are having to fear for their lives, gay in general or seeing the way integration isn't really working judging by the abuse they get.

But on the other hand we also see at some points a parallels society with covid for example in certain turkish area, people began to wear mask and such after the Turkish president said they need to do it.

On the other hand are politics seemingly changing to one liners, quick quip shirt little sentences that do well with the electorate but don't change really much. etc. etc. although it may gain some popularity on the short term, on the longer term it makes to solution more difficult. It are the same tactics populist often use, because who care about the long term if your no longer in politics by then anyway. (see Farage, Johnny robinsson) Because if your short term claim was ''all those foreigner's come here for our jobs'' those foreigner's are not really on your side anymore.
But on the other side or politicians don't really counter those short-sides arguments, they take them over water them down(Cameron's eu citizens can't vote on the eu referendum for example) so instead of taking an firm stance, they say it's kind of ok.

There are many media claiming how welcome we are towards migrants but on the other hand if a permanent or temporarily shelter is announced it often leads to protest, just as many people are very welcoming to migrants unless they are housed next to them.

Is that racist or fear of the unknown? i would say a little bit of both but also a result of the goverments failing always affecting the normal/lowest incomes the hardest, leading to a certain distrust which is if you look at all the factors expected but would it really be racist? I think it's just a bucket that's almost full that's about to tip over. How many people are there not in n situation where they are forced to pay private rent rpices for a dump of a house only to see the goverment failing to solve the social housing issues, and no real prospect of ever buying an house with the current prices and than an Farage or similar tell you those migrants ''get everything for free'' i think everyone would have an tendency to say or argree with Farage and the likes short term soluttions


think the issues with those are more pressing with foods from which the origins are a bit more contended let's say. I think the country diciations are more made for people who want to try something from a other country but don't known where it comes from. i prefer to go to a polish or whatever country i want tpo try food from shop but mileage off course may vary.

The dutch also in terms of known for not spending that much they take half the supermarket with them.

What?!?

Now I know what reading will be like when I get dementia.
 
But let's not start suggesting that it's 'immigrants' that are causing the housing crisis...

Unless you're going to speak about those second home owners, air bnb'ers or rich retiree's pricing locals out of affordable accommodation in less well off areas - there's definitely a bit of an issue there.

Unfortunately that's long been a mainstay of the Kippers etc. And unfortunately it's an easy argument to make for those eligible to vote and hard of thinking and hard of life too.
But the unfortunate truth is that every asylum seeker released from hotel detention and free to remain in the UK will need accomodation in an already overwhelmed market. I see no quick political solution to that.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
But the unfortunate truth is that every asylum seeker released from hotel detention and free to remain in the UK will need accommodation in an already overwhelmed market. I see no quick political solution to that.
However they are not necessarily going to need council housing. They may go to stay with friends or family. They will be able to get jobs which means saving to pay rent etc.
 
However they are not necessarily going to need council housing. They may go to stay with friends or family. They will be able to get jobs which means saving to pay rent etc.
Whisfull thinking, they are not allowed to work when they come here and they you think they going to start in a job earning them enough to pay for private rent from the get go?
Goverments all over europe really have neglected and are still necleting to build enough social housing(if they build any at all) That's why all those substandard Persimon homes and suchlike sell, in an normal market companies like that would be sustainable but because the market is what is is they are.

So the goverment should fix social housing, but they will hurt their wallets and that or their sponsors, anyone still surprised why so little happens?
 

icowden

Legendary Member
Whisfull thinking, they are not allowed to work when they come here and they you think they going to start in a job earning them enough to pay for private rent from the get go?
All the evidence suggests that refugees in a new country work far harder than the indigenous population.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
All the evidence suggests that refugees in a new country work far harder than the indigenous population.

True, but...

Shouldn't that be "immigrants", admittedly, refugees are a subset of immigrants, but, they do not constitute all immigrants.
 
However they are not necessarily going to need council housing. They may go to stay with friends or family. They will be able to get jobs which means saving to pay rent etc.

They may of course stay with friends/family etc, but finding somewhere to rent is already becoming very very difficult indeed. The supply side is nowhere near keeping-up with the demand side of the market....
 

icowden

Legendary Member
Shouldn't that be "immigrants", admittedly, refugees are a subset of immigrants, but, they do not constitute all immigrants.
Yes OK. Weirdly, if you have escaped a war zone or oppression, apparently you are quite keen to earn money to get yourself set up and possibly save the rest of your family.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Yes OK. Weirdly, if you have escaped a war zone or oppression, apparently you are quite keen to earn money to get yourself set up and possibly save the rest of your family.

Touchy

I wasn't disagreeing with you, simply pointing out that the "hard work" characteristic is said to be typical of immigrants in general. I believe, there is also a tendency for the children of immigrants (at least first generation) to generally outperform the indigenous population in matters educational.
 
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