Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
Might this 'man' have breasts as well?
Trans athletes in sport....
- Thread starter Fab Foodie
- Start date
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newfhouse
pleb
I think you should keep inventions like that in your own head.
Craig the cyclist
Über Member
But it isn't an invention. Pre-surgery one would have to live as a woman, using women's facilities. Why is it an invention to say that pre-gender affirmation surgery a person with a penis would not be naked in a female communal changing area?
Craig the cyclist
Über Member
I would answer this question if I understood it.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
It didn't think it was that difficult but.....
When one is transitioning male>female the development of breasts is a result of hormone treatment. Cheap and straightforward.
Gender affirmation surgery, to use your own term, is difficult and expensive. There are many trans women who don't get it done.
A person with both breasts and a penis living as a woman is a very real scenario.
Trans is a fact of life that will need explaining to a child.
Julia9054
Regular
I'm not sure what you think happens in women's changing rooms (just as I don't know what happens in the men's) but there are usually cubicle areas as well as communal bits. I cannot imagine a trans woman who does not conform to standard female anatomy standing around blatantly naked in front of others. Many people - with all sorts of body configurations - don't feel comfortable standing around naked in front of strangers. We change behind curtains/in cubicles/under towels/keep our pants on etc. We have all possibly been in changing rooms with trans people and just not noticed. Changing room issues can be solved with good design that allow people to be private should they choose.
The fairness/inclusion debate in sports is a valid one and all the more difficult to have sensibly with people muddying the issue by manufacturing scenarios where trans women strut about waggling their tackle in changing rooms or by hijacking political debates to ask Labour politicians if women have penises
Craig the cyclist
Über Member
Well I would love to claim the credit, but sadly it wasn't me. It is a term used by many clinics and trans groups to describe the surgery undergone by trans people.
Gender affirmation surgery refers to procedures that help people transition to their self-identified gender. Gender-affirming options may include facial surgery, top surgery or bottom surgery. Most people who choose gender affirmation surgeries report improved mental health and quality of life.
Why the constant need to always have a dig at me?
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
No dig intended.
What's your answer to the fact that children will see things that need explaining?
Craig the cyclist
Über Member
Then I would simply explain that some people believe they are in the wrong body and that they are going to live as the other gender because it makes them happier and everyone deserves to be happy and live in a way that makes them happy. No big problem. I managed to successfully explain to two young children their uncle had come out as gay in middle age without damage.
I would have much more of a problem explaining to my 16 year old daughter, the year she won a major schools orienteering competition in the UK, why the boy who ran in the boys competition last year and came 29th had just kicked her arse this year running as a girl.
mudsticks
Squire
Exactly.
This is why it's pointless to the point of downright harmful to attempt these kinds of discussions on the internet.
There's always someone making deliberately juvenile attempts to bring it down to 'Hee hee a woman with a willy' discussions.
But then women suffer enough 'body policing' as it is ,so I guess it's just another element of that.
The 'fairness' in sport is a standalone issue imo, and brings up all kinds of other issues too , such as how come 'sporting prowess' is the only route available for some people to get a decent education.
How sport was always organised along lines that would favour men anyway.
I don't know any transwomen who would 'parade around' waving their willie's around in the changing room, it's just total nonsense.
Yes, there are a seemingly inexhaustible supply of cis guys who go around using their members as 'offensive weapons'
Dick pic anyone??
But they're not of the trans community.
newfhouse
pleb
Parade?
mudsticks
Squire
Wel I don't know anything about this particular case but looks like a major outlier to me.
Dragged out to amplify fear, division, and stoke up the 'culture wwr'.
As I say I know actual real life transwomen and they would never do anything this .
Those men on here (and elsewhere) suddenly outraged on behalf of women allegedly having to witness the willies of transwomen all over the place.
You'd not happen to intersect rather heavily with the reactive 'not all men' spouting group, whenever we women bring up boring old 'everyday' harassment that we suffer from boring old cis men ??.
Where are you when we're asking you to directly tackle the far more generalised fear that many women have around men behaving badly??
The trans issue is so minimal as to be almost invisible when compared with all that.
But a more generalised thread on the topic of ensuring a womans rights to go about free from fear of harassment gets very little useful input from your 'average bird biffer'
Very interesting, even telling contrast, I'd say..
Anyway, here I am 'debating' on a thread I said I'd not get involved in ..
AuroraSaab
Squire
The issue of changing rooms, toilets etc is mostly solvable by having Female, Male, and Unisex, facilities. This doesn't appease the trans community because it provides no validation, but it is a practical solution. It doesn't solve the problems of males in women's prisons or domestic violence refuges, women's sports, or the change in language that is being demanded.
How do we tell the difference? How do we know the genuine transwomen from the men with a fetish for being in women's spaces? We can't tell, so we exclude all men from women's single seats spaces regardless of how they identify.
Many women and girls are uncomfortable changing or using the loo around male bodies, regardless of whether genitals are on show or not. These women and girls, including those in religious minorities who are prohibited by their faith from being uncovered around men, will self exclude from these spaces.
How do we tell the difference? How do we know the genuine transwomen from the men with a fetish for being in women's spaces? We can't tell, so we exclude all men from women's single seats spaces regardless of how they identify.
Many women and girls are uncomfortable changing or using the loo around male bodies, regardless of whether genitals are on show or not. These women and girls, including those in religious minorities who are prohibited by their faith from being uncovered around men, will self exclude from these spaces.
mudsticks
Squire
I'm no stranger to the concept of women being uncomfortable around men, either clothed or unclothed.
But that speaks to far wider issues than transwomen in changing spaces
We need to have better standards of behaviour being the norm in all our spaces , both public and private.
Respectful behaviour educated in from birth.
That will take a while I know, but many of us are totally done with the 'boys will be boys, it's just inevitable they will misbehave' schtick.
Having raised two boys to men, I've been very much invested in the how's and whys of raising 'good men' by all accounts it's turned out ok..
Bad behaviour on the part of men, isn't inevitable, it's just currently 'excused' expected or even 'glorified' in certain sections of our society right now.
Many women are afraid / uncomfortable around men for many justifiable reasons, and yes that's why we have 'safe spaces' .
But using a generalised 'fear' of men , or aversion to seeing willies, as a stick with which to beat transpeople is highly unjust .
I haven't experienced , nor do I agree with the "in quotes" part of you post (I haven't got bolded for some reason)
That's an over generalisation, in my view.
The problems that lead to women feeling the need for safespaces in the first place are far more systemic, than it just being that women don't want to see willies, it's the behaviour that can accompany the willy that's the problem.
Those need addressing
Anyway , I'm a fool for joining in.
And I'll leave it there..
Although I suppose talking about all this might make a few men consider why some women are just generally uncomfortable around men full stop...
And address that, for everyones sake.
Let's hope so eh??
