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icowden

Legendary Member
In which case I fail to follow your argument.

My argument is that Tesla reporting the range of a Tesla to be higher than it actually is in the real world is no different to Renault claiming my Grand Scenic can do 62mpg. Whilst S Korea may have fined Tesla, I think we all know that range or MPG is affected by weather and the speed / conditions in which you are driving.

I'm not sure that they make a good case that Tesla should have told people that range would decrease if it were very cold, nor that there is a 50% reduction in range as the range quoted was never real world.
 

Ian H

Guru
My argument is that Tesla reporting the range of a Tesla to be higher than it actually is in the real world is no different to Renault claiming my Grand Scenic can do 62mpg. Whilst S Korea may have fined Tesla, I think we all know that range or MPG is affected by weather and the speed / conditions in which you are driving.

I'm not sure that they make a good case that Tesla should have told people that range would decrease if it were very cold, nor that there is a 50% reduction in range as the range quoted was never real world.

It seems to me that the real argument is why they haven't gone after Renault & others, not why they fined Tesla.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Apparently 7000 to 9000kg depending on the model :ohmy: :ohmy::ohmy:

It's this actual one apparently. Not one of the huge JCB size ones, but it's still pretty big. Very lucky escape. Presumably you need an extra license to drive stuff like that. Wonder if he left it running or it just started sliding. The thought of being caught in those treads, crikey.

jeremy-renner-lake-tahoe-house-snowplow-04.jpg
 
OP
OP
Fab Foodie

Fab Foodie

Guru
It's this actual one apparently. Not one of the huge JCB size ones, but it's still pretty big. Very lucky escape. Presumably you need an extra license to drive stuff like that. Wonder if he left it running or it just started sliding. The thought of being caught in those treads, crikey.

View attachment 2777

If you own one of those to clear your driveway, you're earning too much money!
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
I've heard he lives in a semi remote area so it's probably justifiable. Not sure I'd want to live somewhere where a snow plough is considered a handy thing to have in the garage though. Bit too off grid for me. Knowing the Internet, I expect his x-rays will be on social media by next week. Glad he's recovering, could have been so much worse.
 

albion

Guru
It seems to me that the real argument is why they haven't gone after Renault & others, not why they fined Tesla.

I think it the norm to get the biggest fish to comply first. Maybe in Korea others do.
Interestingly, BYD are now the biggest electric car seller, at least for the November.

Tesla themselves, have started to adopt the safer BYD batteries for some of their cars. Usefully, as well as proven far safer, they double longevity.
 
It isn't possible to directly warn you of something that doesn't exist.
Cold weather effect on batteries is long known, ask the rac/AA etc. their callouts for starting problems surge during every cold snap.

Yes, EV batteries are less efficient in cold weather and range can drop by up to 20% depending on how cold it is. Tesla's like all EVs can be fitted with a heat pump which helps combat this by about 10%. However in extreme cold (-15c or below), even the heat pump will struggle, and Tesla has had an issue with the pumps on the 3 and Y which are failing. They fixed the issue once, but it has recurred.
So their legal/marketing department didn't work together enough to combat possible false range claims, they should especially in countries known for cold winters added an line about winter weather and the effect on range.


The figure of 50% is a 50% reduction based on how they are advertised online. Everyone knows that the range stated by manufacturers is as accurate as the MPG quoted on ICE cars.

What the car will do is adjust your predicted mileage and tell you how many miles you are doing per kwh. It will then point you to a charger when it is needed. Range changes hugely based on how and where you are driving, the heat / cold issue is just another variable.
So they didn't got their terms and claims right, the best example is broadband, they advertise an certain speed but before you buy it tells you more accurately what speed they expect you to get. The same couldbe done by tesla on the order page, that is shows the reduces expected range on cold weather for example.


The police have charged the Tesla driver with attempted murder of his wife and children.

I did wonder about the crash and if the car had suddenly shot off the cliff edge at speed, and in a cartoon fashion simply dropped vertically landing on 4 wheels. That felt like the only way driving off a cliff could be survivable. Didn't expect it to have been deliberate though.
It doesn't have to be deliberate for the driver to be charged with attempted murder, for example an case of smalldickenergy@getalife.com can lead to the same charge if the police checks his tyre marks speed etc. and comes to the conclusion that he was driving much to fast/irresponsible etc. useally a combination of those. We have seen similar convictions across europe, uk and elsewhere for example if someone manages to speed with 80 mph where he/she is allowed 20mph and kills someone in the process, in most countries it goes automatically into an murder charge then because of the irresponsible behavior means the driver took so much risk that a murder charge is justified.

If you own one of those to clear your driveway, you're earning too much money!
Really not the point at all.
 
We have seen similar convictions across europe, uk and elsewhere for example if someone manages to speed with 80 mph where he/she is allowed 20mph and kills someone in the process, in most countries it goes automatically into an murder charge then because of the irresponsible behavior means the driver took so much risk that a murder charge is justified.

How long have you been in the U.K.? This never happens here. The charge would be, at most, causing death by dangerous driving, not murder or manslaughter.
 
How long have you been in the U.K.? This never happens here. The charge would be, at most, causing death by dangerous driving, not murder or manslaughter.
Is causing death by dangerous driving not the same as murder with an chainsaw? (for example) Altough i don't know if it matter sread today about someone on a motorcycle being deliberately mowed down and killed because he was associated with a rival (motorcycle)gang. there are not even charged with ''death by dangerous driving'' they where cleared for murder but convicted for manslaughter. It does indicate that the prosecution tried to put them on trial for murder first. So using an vehicle as a murder weapon isn't automatically ''causing death by dangerous driving''
 
Is causing death by dangerous driving not the same as murder with an chainsaw?
In law, no.

So using an vehicle as a murder weapon isn't automatically ''causing death by dangerous driving''

A successful murder charge requires that an intent or a reasonable expectation of death is proved. In non-motoring cases manslaughter is causing death without an intent to kill.

For reasons that elude me causing death (without intent) through the use of a motor vehicle is treated differently.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Couldn't understand that motorbike case. If you deliberately drive a car at a bike or motorbike it's not unreasonable to judge that the likely outcome would be death. Can't understand a manslaughter charge. Ditto cases of people thrown into water etc.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Change in the approach to this here lately. If you drive a car at 160 kmh / 100 mph through a city centre and kill someone in the process you can now be done for murder. It used to be the case this was treated as manslaughter with a correspondingly lower sentence, but the court will now accept that such excessive speeds mean the driver has disregarded the possible outcome if he hits someone at that speed and in a sense intended to kill them.
 
In law, no.
ok
A successful murder charge requires that an intent or a reasonable expectation of death is proved. In non-motoring cases manslaughter is causing death without an intent to kill.
Don't see how deliberately driving over someone on a motorcycle with a van does not account to murder but i haven't read the whole court case.
But here and in many other countries, whether your a multinational company or and 18 years old with a criminal record longer the eyes can see t seems other laws apply either due the the thing called lobbying, or due to the fact that the justice system doesn't really cater for mass offenders it assumes to much a person will learn from being jailed etc.

For reasons that elude me causing death (without intent) through the use of a motor vehicle is treated differently.
agreed it sounds silly.
 
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