I would differ considerably with John Pilger politically, but he is always worth reading. Gives a different take on things that ought to be discussed more.
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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Rusty Nails
Country Member
A deflection in this particular thread.
A good video, and I agree with you about the conclusions. The video goes some way to explaining Russia’s actions but that does not excuse them nor their overt and none too subtle threats of violence.
I believe that even without this recent issue Ukraine was not going to become a member of NATO, because it would be too provocative, but that was not enough for Putin who wants, for propaganda purposes, a formal declaration that they will never be allowed to join by NATO, which of course NATO could not give about an independent nation neighbouring other members, and which has been subject to invasion in recent years.
Ian H
Legendary Member
Here we go. Putin seems to be about to recognise the breakaway regions of Ukraine. There's been civil war there for a few years and unrecognised governments set up in both Luhansk and Donetsk. They are, I believe majority Russian-speaking.
I guess they'll pretty soon be client states of Russia.
I guess they'll pretty soon be client states of Russia.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Not Russia's fault. It can all be justified because of Russia's concerns and the way it has been treated in the past apparently according to those who can never see fault in them.
There are Baltic countries with large Russian speaking populations. I'll bet they are nervous and glad they are in NATO. Although nothing can be taken for granted with Putin.
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BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
100 years?, blink of an eye, we have grudges going back 300 years, even 800 years. Russian upstarts
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Moodyman
Member
In recent days British conservatives have been comparing Putin to Hitler. Not only is this inflammatory to recent Russian history, it shows the British are as good as any at holding a grudge. We continue to invoke Nazism and Hitlerism when it suits us. Boris went to Ukraine last week mimicking Churchillian language.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
If only Russia stopped actively supporting/encouraging the separatist rebels in order to gain control of the Russia/Ukraine border area.
There are fundamental differences in the way the two countries interpret the Minsk agreement.
Ukraine see Minsk 2 as offering limited autonomy to the region as part of a united Ukraine but Ukraine keeping control of the border with Russia. Russia sees it as offering the rebels almost full autonomy with seats in parliament, thus indirectly giving Russia influence in the running of the Ukraine.
There have been difficulties with Minsk but Russia is the one who is threatening another country, not anyone else.
Do you believe the Russian reports of increased violence by Ukraine, or is this just a pretence to get Russian troops more openly into the region?
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Rusty Nails
Country Member
Despite Johnson's obvious and predictable posturing we are a bit part in all this, and this is also a rather obvious deflection from the issue of Russia's actions.
icowden
Legendary Member
It's OK folks - Boris is going to stop the war:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60476137
He hasn't yet stated what sanctions they will be, but I'm sure the first step will be to stop buying Russian oil and gas. Can't see any issues with that. He is also likely to stop all those Russian oligarchs from coming over here and spending their money.
Right?
So - hard hitting sanctions with no impact on the British economy.
[telephone rings]
Hang on - getting an important incoming message.
Apparently if he does any of these things we are f|*&^&ed...
So, just a frowny face and not answering the phone then. Putin will be quaking I tell you.
spen666
Well-Known Member
Is this War a 2 legged affair?
Do we fight Russia away from home, then at home?
Do away kills count double?
We all know that West will impose sanctions that either are ineffective, or upsets Putin so he reduces gas supply/ increases prices and West suffer. Perhaps if West hadn't relied upon a potential enemy for much of its gas supplies, it may have been in a better position. Imagine if we had allowed fracking, we wouldn't need to worry about Russia turning off gas supplies.
Sometimes, a headlong rush to be "green" can actually cause problems
Meanwhile Putin invades Ukraine, gets what he wants and knows the West will do nothing effective to stop him because they do not want a world war. Proving that in international relations, being a bully is largely successful.
Do we fight Russia away from home, then at home?
Do away kills count double?
We all know that West will impose sanctions that either are ineffective, or upsets Putin so he reduces gas supply/ increases prices and West suffer. Perhaps if West hadn't relied upon a potential enemy for much of its gas supplies, it may have been in a better position. Imagine if we had allowed fracking, we wouldn't need to worry about Russia turning off gas supplies.
Sometimes, a headlong rush to be "green" can actually cause problems
Meanwhile Putin invades Ukraine, gets what he wants and knows the West will do nothing effective to stop him because they do not want a world war. Proving that in international relations, being a bully is largely successful.
Mugshot
Über Member
Is that what's happened, or has there been a whole lot of big talk, with little to no actual headlong rush to actually go green, so we're still reliant on fossil fuel, wherever it may be coming from?
mudsticks
Squire
Exactly.
We've had no headlong rush whatsoever
We've had dilly dallying, distraction, denial, and obfuscation from big oil, and vested interest
All this has been on the cards for decades, both insecurity from relying on others for energy, alongside all the environmental consequences.
We could and should have done far more far sooner
And now we're paying for our lack of attention.
Others in the global south however are paying far more, and they haven't even benefitted from all the oil and gas we've burnt .
fozy tornip
At the controls of my private jet.
Sanctions? Cancelling the Kremlin's order of Frank Cooper's Oxford Marmalade might work, were Xie Ping's Yunnan Orange Jam not a passable substitute.
