War with Russia

[Unkraut]

Germany can sanction Russia as it is a member of a huge trading block which has multiple arrangements to import gas from different countries

I think Germany made a strategic mistake in becoming too reliant on Russian gas - which at present is still flowing, as is oil to the United States. I think the logic behind it was that the more interdependence countries have in trading the harder it becomes for military conflicts to arise, as if they do both sides suffer from it. Long term though Russia needs the income from its gas and other natural resources.

I have just watched most of a discussion on this, with a couple of east European researchers maintaining that as far as the Minsk agreement is concerned the Russians kept to their part of the bargain, but the Ukrainians did virtually nothing with regard to the Russian populations of the eastern Ukraine - autonomy etc. This was despite massive German pressure to do so, Germany after the US being the biggest investor in the Ukraine. This was no defence of Putin but rather to keep some semblance of balance in the discussions of this in the West, something too often lacking.

As far as Putin's speech goes it was short on facts and long on propaganda for home consumption.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Nothing we can do can hurt them. I would call the sanctions place on Russia as "puny" but realistically, we could cut off every single tie to the place and they'd still laugh. That's what happens when you sit on as much fossil fuels as they have and the world continues to suck on it....

Maybe Trump had a point when he complained about most Nato countries not spending enough on defence, but that's a maybe.. Having a big and powerfull defence/army fleet and russian agression are not related right?

 

[Deleted member 121]

Maybe Trump had a point when he complained about most Nato countries not spending enough on defence, but that's a maybe.. Having a big and powerfull defence/army fleet and russian agression are not related right?

I don't think there is much relevance here. NATO is not a weak military force, if we consider the members defence hardware involved.
NATO has a potential of around 3.5 million troops covering Army Navy and Air Forces. Russia around 800000 (trained professionals).

NATO has around 4000 Combat Jet Aircraft. Russia has around 1200, some are old frames to say the least.
NATO has around 9000 MBT's. Russia around 3000 and some old relics in a barn in Siberia somewhere...

Off the top of my head, NATO has around 15 aircraft carriers. Russia has 1 old knackered one...

You get the picture, NATO is not short of military hardware.

The issue is it's all on paper for NATO and in an 'ideal scenario' type of deal. Troop and hardware commitments by member states can be flaky at best, Member states may differ on responses to crisis and the command structure is such that a NATO commander has limited authority over the forces. For example, the NATO commander could not punish his troops for failing to obey a lawful order, dereliction of duty and even if the soldier pisses on his shoes, the commander is powerless... Russia doesn't have that problem. Russia's unity in organisation, structure and command is far superior. It should not be underestimated...

Trump has said a lot of cack. But he was referring to the NATO requirement to spend 2% of their GDP on defence. Most are not... Frankly, whether it really would make a difference to Russian foreign policy makers as to whether Slovakia was spending 2% of their GDP on defence or not is up for a mickey mouse style debate. We all know the answer...

Russia knows it can push the boundaries. It knows that many NATO members severity of response is likely to differ as in part they rely on them for fossil fuels. It knows, NATO will not intervene militarily in Ukraine, a non-NATO country. There is too much at stake for NATO and Russia can simply absorb the sanctions and if we're being honest, the gas will continue to pump and in 12 months Russia will like be moving ahead with Nord Stream 2 again. The only way to hurt Russia, is the only thing keeping tens of millions warm and with power to their homes...

 

[Julia9054]

Made in Leeds but is Glucose-fructose syrup really needed?
Surprised, as a well known/premium brand, this contains glucose fructose syrup (doubt this was in the original recipe). Try to avoid GFS so won't buy for that reason. Tiptree's just contains Sugar and Oranges.

Why do you avoid it? Both glucose and fructose are sugars - they are just monosaccharides instead of the disaccharide sucrose. Since fructose tastes sweeter, manufacturers can use less of it to achieve the same effect.

 

[icowden]

Made in Leeds but is Glucose-fructose syrup really needed?
Surprised, as a well known/premium brand, this contains glucose fructose syrup (doubt this was in the original recipe). Try to avoid GFS so won't buy for that reason. Tiptree's just contains Sugar and Oranges.

From their website:-

The Fine Cut Oxford Marmalade is inspired by the original Sarah Jane Coopers 1874 recipe, made using the full flavour of Seville oranges, made just a little sweeter.

So, just like Sarah Jane Cooper's 1874 recipe (sugar + oranges) - it has oranges in it!

 

[Johnno260]

I don't think there is much relevance here. NATO is not a weak military force, if we consider the members defence hardware involved.
NATO has a potential of around 3.5 million troops covering Army Navy and Air Forces. Russia around 800000 (trained professionals).

NATO has around 4000 Combat Jet Aircraft. Russia has around 1200, some are old frames to say the least.
NATO has around 9000 MBT's. Russia around 3000 and some old relics in a barn in Siberia somewhere...

Off the top of my head, NATO has around 15 aircraft carriers. Russia has 1 old knackered one...

You get the picture, NATO is not short of military hardware.

The issue is it's all on paper for NATO and in an 'ideal scenario' type of deal. Troop and hardware commitments by member states can be flaky at best, Member states may differ on responses to crisis and the command structure is such that a NATO commander has limited authority over the forces. For example, the NATO commander could not punish his troops for failing to obey a lawful order, dereliction of duty and even if the soldier pisses on his shoes, the commander is powerless... Russia doesn't have that problem. Russia's unity in organisation, structure and command is far superior. It should not be underestimated...

Trump has said a lot of cack. But he was referring to the NATO requirement to spend 2% of their GDP on defence. Most are not... Frankly, whether it really would make a difference to Russian foreign policy makers as to whether Slovakia was spending 2% of their GDP on defence or not is up for a mickey mouse style debate. We all know the answer...

Russia knows it can push the boundaries. It knows that many NATO members severity of response is likely to differ as in part they rely on them for fossil fuels. It knows, NATO will not intervene militarily in Ukraine, a non-NATO country. There is too much at stake for NATO and Russia can simply absorb the sanctions and if we're being honest, the gas will continue to pump and in 12 months Russia will like be moving ahead with Nord Stream 2 again. The only way to hurt Russia, is the only thing keeping tens of millions warm and with power to their homes...

The Russian aircraft carrier isn't a factor either, last I heard it was docked and couldn't be repaired as it's floating dry dock sank, probably why Russia wanted the docks in Crimea back I think they can maintain larger ships.

But still if the Russian Navy wanted the Admiral Kuznetsov back at sea, it would be quite an undertaking as the thing also caught fire, it was a piece of trash before that happened as well.

I would say the NATO hardware in naval terms is more modern as well, I'm not saying the Russians wouldn't be a threat and tangling with a Kirov class ships are dangerous as well as some of their subs.

With regards to airframes the Russians have some modern airframes, but I don't think they have produced them in large enough numbers to be a huge threat, I would say the chunk of their airframes a soviet era with some upgrades, a SU-57 would be a pain, but even the Typhoon is a great aircraft.

Edit: I think this situation has shown the RN needs more redundancy as I think most of the Type 45's are in for maintenance, and we still don't have a full airwing on a single of our 2 carriers.

I still think not having cats and traps was a mistake on those carriers are we are limited to stol currently.

 

[Milzy]

They are polite people. Johnson is trying to be in bed with everyone at once.
I bet Putin takes what he wants with his over rated forces because the more advanced forces of NATO have no balls.

 

[Johnno260]

They are polite people. Johnson is trying to be in bed with everyone at once.
I bet Putin takes what he wants with his over rated forces because the more advanced forces of NATO have no balls.

Ukraine isn’t a NATO member, whilst a land grab is against international law you still have to be careful, try listening to Putins last public address where he in some cases re-writes history , he is a classic case of being in power too long and it going to his head.

He has nukes as well, and a lot of them, going in gung-ho when he perceives that he is already threatened and cornered would be a very risky move imo.

 

[Deleted member 121]

And so it begins....

 

[Johnno260]

And so it begins....

Putin basically said on state media for the Ukraines to put down their arms or bloodshed is their fault.

Like I said he is a classic case of a world leader being in power too long.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2022/2/23/22948534/russia-ukraine-war-putin-explosions

 

[Deleted member 121]

Putin basically said on state media for the Ukraines to put down their arms or bloodshed is their fault.

Like I said he is a classic case of a world leader being in power too long.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2022/2/23/22948534/russia-ukraine-war-putin-explosions

I think the state of his mind can simply be summed up by his own words.

He is 'Denazifying' Ukraine...

 

[Johnno260]

I think the state of his mind can simply be summed up by his own words.

He is 'Denazifying' Ukraine...

Yes with statements like that he is totally cuckoo, literally taking Godwin’s law and putting it on steroids.

This could get ugly and fast.

 

[Hitchington]

"Holding back sanctions..."

This government's foreign policy is an utter joke.

 

[Johnno260]

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12550049

That’s not really a veiled threat.

 

[qigong chimp]

Seems like he's following the Bush/Blair playbook pretty closely.