fozy tornip
At the controls of my private jet.
I hope Priti Patel has put our Border Force on a war footing.
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
icowden
Legendary Member
RecordAceFromNew
Member
At risk of appearing to blame the victim, truth be told Zelensky is an idiot*.
But then what do you expect, given the coup and subsequent government formations were heavily steered by the US?
If you thought the Russian speaking Ukrainians in Donbas have been having a good time courtesy of the Ukrainian government, you might want to read this.
Despite over a month old, this is a good, reasonably even-handed take on the issues supported by plenty of info, and made excellent reasoned predictions (proven by events).
* think you agreed with me that Ukraine should have taken a neutral stance in geopolitics given their circumstances, and to focus on economic developments, so this point shouldn't be controversial?
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Zelensky may well be an idiot, and the US may have influenced the Ukraine government, but that does not justify violent invasion by Russia, while pretending to go through diplomatic channels with representatives of other countries. Russia is not exactly averse to steering the governments of countries, occasionally with shows of force, so that neighbouring countries have poodles like Lukashenko in charge.
There is absolutely no doubt the area is a mess and there is suffering and unfairness in Donbas on both sides, and of course none of the violence is supported by Russian forces. I would read the link but my German linguistic skills are zero.
It is a good read but what it basically consists of is saying that Russia has some fears over NATO and has the power and the capability to force its will on neighbours if they do not comply with their wishes.
There was plenty of room for more diplomacy in this, if Russia wanted, but this whole build up of forces suggests that he was not prepared to go through that route.
NATO was not about to give membership to Ukraine any time soon.
The Crofted Crest
Active Member
Chinese planes apparently spotted in Taiwanese airspace.
Johnno260
Regular
This can be something China does anyway, it's not too different from when the RAF send up interceptors to escort Russian planes away from UK airspace, I was witness to this last year when 2 Typhoons ripped across Suffolk to get to some Russian aircraft, the sonic boom was something else.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...planes-into-taiwan-defence-zone-since-october
That article is just one example, hopefully it's just China playing the usual game they play, but in my opinion it's a dumb move during heightened tensions.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
From the BBC news site:
"There has been a lot of interest in how China would respond. Its initial response was to call the word invasion a "typical Western media question method", with the foreign ministry saying "we won't go rushing to a conclusion".
Senior diplomat Wang Yi said China understood Russia's security concerns.
They will support each other. Two cheeks of the same arse.
Johnno260
Regular
In all honestly, I would be concerned if I was in Taiwan, I was taking an optimistic approach.
Again let’s hope this is bollocks as this could cause issues, even a forest fire here is a big issue.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...clear-russia-attack-ukraine-b2022444.html?amp
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0265931X21001600
Rusty Nails
Country Member
I agree completely with this article in the Prospect magazine. There are no ifs, buts or excuses, the actions of Russia are unnecessary and shameful.
"A week ago the Stop the War campaign group launched a petition which is explicit about this equivalence. Mentioning Iraq in a list of failed interventions, it adds: “Stop the War opposes any war over Ukraine, and believes the crisis should be settled on a basis which recognises the right of the Ukrainian people to self-determination and addresses Russia’s security concerns.”
“Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes.”
It is hard to know where to start on such extreme false equivalence. But the fundamental issue is simple: there is only one aggressive invading power here, Putin’s Russia. Everyone else—Ukraine, Nato, the British government—are the resisters to Putin’s military aggression and violation of the borders of an independent sovereign European state. And there is only one person who can stop this war: Putin, who started it.
Russia is clearly wrong, Ukraine is clearly right. The question is whether Putin can be stopped from undermining and possibly destroying Ukraine as an independent state, and also perhaps starting a war on another of his borders with Europe, such as with the Baltic states, in his quest for—well, no one is quite sure what. It is clear that he seeks a nationalist westward expansion to reverse at least some of the disintegration of the end of the Soviet Union, shoring up his fascist regime thereby.
This is emphatically not a war between Russia and Nato. Ukraine isn’t a member of Nato. The question of whether it might have become so—or might still do so—is irrelevant to the violation of its borders. And no one, including the British government, has suggested that Nato can or should repel this invasion by direct use of its own military forces. In all the debate about soft cops Macron and Scholz and tough cops Johnson and Biden, the only real difference has been the willingness to listen to Putin’s long monologues of self-created grievances and fanciful recreation of Russian and European history to suit his megalomania.
The issue here isn’t Russian security but Russian aggression. The only cause of Russian insecurity is the threat to Putin’s regime posed by free and independent peoples and nations on his borders."
"A week ago the Stop the War campaign group launched a petition which is explicit about this equivalence. Mentioning Iraq in a list of failed interventions, it adds: “Stop the War opposes any war over Ukraine, and believes the crisis should be settled on a basis which recognises the right of the Ukrainian people to self-determination and addresses Russia’s security concerns.”
“Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes.”
It is hard to know where to start on such extreme false equivalence. But the fundamental issue is simple: there is only one aggressive invading power here, Putin’s Russia. Everyone else—Ukraine, Nato, the British government—are the resisters to Putin’s military aggression and violation of the borders of an independent sovereign European state. And there is only one person who can stop this war: Putin, who started it.
Russia is clearly wrong, Ukraine is clearly right. The question is whether Putin can be stopped from undermining and possibly destroying Ukraine as an independent state, and also perhaps starting a war on another of his borders with Europe, such as with the Baltic states, in his quest for—well, no one is quite sure what. It is clear that he seeks a nationalist westward expansion to reverse at least some of the disintegration of the end of the Soviet Union, shoring up his fascist regime thereby.
This is emphatically not a war between Russia and Nato. Ukraine isn’t a member of Nato. The question of whether it might have become so—or might still do so—is irrelevant to the violation of its borders. And no one, including the British government, has suggested that Nato can or should repel this invasion by direct use of its own military forces. In all the debate about soft cops Macron and Scholz and tough cops Johnson and Biden, the only real difference has been the willingness to listen to Putin’s long monologues of self-created grievances and fanciful recreation of Russian and European history to suit his megalomania.
The issue here isn’t Russian security but Russian aggression. The only cause of Russian insecurity is the threat to Putin’s regime posed by free and independent peoples and nations on his borders."
Last edited:
Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
We've had pestilence, war next, then famine, and finally death. Ah, lovely death.They should've santioned Putin out of existence 8 years ago.
At least WW3 should deal with Covid.
FishFright
Well-Known Member
What's the current score U.S. Vs Russia in 21st Century Invasion Cup ?
FishFright
Well-Known Member
As it's kicking off now so I expect your next flight is to Ukraine to join the fight on the ground.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
If you mean permanent invasions Russia is well ahead.
Because the West has acted badly does not justify upping the ante by Russia.
Straight question...do you think Russia's actions over Ukraine are justified?
It may be difficult for some to admit, but they are no longer a remotely left, communist or socialist regime.
