War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
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Rusty Nails
Country Member
What is this obsession people have with formal apologies, and what constitutes a proper apology? None of these incidents have had apologies, so far, but one of the three has resulted in financial reparations/compensation for the families of those killed. Perhaps Russia will make reparations for this one, unlike the previous one.
Except for Japan, you possibly never will. Not from Germany, the US, UK, Russia, Iran, Israel etc. etc. War is always dirty, is not a playground fight, and apologies never mean anything, especially without accountabilityand reparations, and change nothing.
The Crofted Crest
Active Member
The Dutch govt is claiming €199 million and rising from Russia for the downing of MH17, and expects to receive it. It does not expect an apology. The case is still pending.
Mr Celine
Well-Known Member
... and gave the captain of the ship that shot the plane down a medal.
RecordAceFromNew
Regular
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/12/politics/hegseth-ukraine-rules-out-nato-membership/index.html
This outcome was never in doubt. Hopefully the vast majority in this thread and parish who disagreed can learn from this.
But then as Hegel famously said, the only thing that we learn from history, is that we learn nothing from history....
This outcome was never in doubt. Hopefully the vast majority in this thread and parish who disagreed can learn from this.
But then as Hegel famously said, the only thing that we learn from history, is that we learn nothing from history....
Reports now appearing that Trump has talked to Putin and US and Russia to start peace talks to end the Ukraine War, without Ukraine involvement it seems.
US has already made significant concessions despite talks not having started eg Ukraine will never join NATO and Ukraine will cede territory to Russia.
Seems US plan is for peace to be secured by European troups (but not under NATO) though Europeans get no say in the negotiations.
US has already made significant concessions despite talks not having started eg Ukraine will never join NATO and Ukraine will cede territory to Russia.
Seems US plan is for peace to be secured by European troups (but not under NATO) though Europeans get no say in the negotiations.
Ian
Badger_Boom
Member
So Trump will get his very own peace in our time moment.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Veteran
And just like many experts said before they warn for the same now *if* Putin gets anything in this case it's land and no Ukraine in Nato, it will just mean that any peace is relative he will use it to retrain and then attack the next target. Whatever that is.
AuroraSaab
Shaman
You can apply but have to meet the conditions, one of which is to spend a certain % of gdp on Defence. Most Nato countries haven't been meeting this target for years, which is one reason the US can get a bit miffed about Nato; they can perceive themselves as doing the heavy lifting defence wise whilst Europe spends its money on other stuff.
Every country has a veto I believe. If the US says Ukraine membership is off the table, it's off the table.
Add on: It's supposed to be 2% of gdp on defence. Most members aren't meeting that figure.
Every country has a veto I believe. If the US says Ukraine membership is off the table, it's off the table.
Add on: It's supposed to be 2% of gdp on defence. Most members aren't meeting that figure.
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The 2% of GDP is a "guideline" not a membership requirement. It was introduced in 2014 (partially in response to Russia's annexation of Crimea) but based on a 2006 agreement. NATO regard it as an indication of political resolve.
Related it's interesting how the US is n ow pushing Europe to move to 5% despite US being somewhat below this. Add that Trump is now talking about striking a "deal" with Russia and China that would enable the US to half its defence spending. If he did this he'd be cutting US to 1.7%.
Ian
Re: NATO Future
Whilst it's early days into a Trump term and probably too early for Governments to be making long term policy decisions, US has certainly shown itself to be an "unreliable partner" eg Canada has a Free Trade Agreement with the US and suddenly Trump is imposing tarriffs - so much for long term agreements.
But given US has shown the world what can happen, if things don't settle down quickly I wonder if we might see a "expansion" or increased prominence and scope of the European Defence Agency, moving it more to the role of "NATO without the US"; maybe a "new" organisation with greater scope evolving from the existing EDA. Whilst UK is no longer a member (not even got an opt-in) we (UK) does have a Combined Joint Expeditionary Force agreement with France and are part of the EU’s Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) framework - so were we to get more involved in the EDA I suspect Farage wouldn't kick-up too much.
Ian
Whilst it's early days into a Trump term and probably too early for Governments to be making long term policy decisions, US has certainly shown itself to be an "unreliable partner" eg Canada has a Free Trade Agreement with the US and suddenly Trump is imposing tarriffs - so much for long term agreements.
But given US has shown the world what can happen, if things don't settle down quickly I wonder if we might see a "expansion" or increased prominence and scope of the European Defence Agency, moving it more to the role of "NATO without the US"; maybe a "new" organisation with greater scope evolving from the existing EDA. Whilst UK is no longer a member (not even got an opt-in) we (UK) does have a Combined Joint Expeditionary Force agreement with France and are part of the EU’s Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) framework - so were we to get more involved in the EDA I suspect Farage wouldn't kick-up too much.
Ian
Ian H
Legendary Member
The US wants its empire on the cheap.
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
Whilst it would be excellent to to see the war (sorry, Special Operation) in Ukraine come to an end, I do think, given their resilience in the face of the Russian attack, if we had to take sides, I think I would rather have the Ukranians in our tent, rather than the Russian tent.
