War with Russia

[mudsticks]

Good news for all the wannabes on twitter busy dispensing tactical urban warfare advice. The foreign secretary has said that she will support any British citizens who want to go to Ukraine and take up arms against the Russians.

She won't, of course.

What she hasn't told them is that she won't let them back in again..

Unless they first promise to become lorry drivers .

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Good news for all the wannabes on twitter busy dispensing tactical urban warfare advice. The foreign secretary has said that she will support any British citizens who want to go to Ukraine and take up arms against the Russians.

She won't, of course.

I gather she's already started to row back on that one....

 

[Hitchington]

Good news for all the wannabes on twitter busy dispensing tactical urban warfare advice. The foreign secretary has said that she will support any British citizens who want to go to Ukraine and take up arms against the Russians.

She won't, of course.

I saw her saying that on TV earlier. Quite reckless but unsurprising from Liz Pork Markets Truss.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I'm guessing these young Russian soldiers 'signed up' for all this in some way shape or form.
.
Naïvely imagining they were going to fight some kind of 'good fight' for the motherland ??

But I can't also help feeling sympathy for those 'fairly' innocent young lives caught up in all this expansionist adventuring of a power crazed madman, too.

Same for the Russian citizens back home who want no part in this..

Most of them ''conscription'' so miltary duty, and they where under the impression of doing exercises in Belarus.
Then send to Ukraine with no communications plan whatever, where they are met with very fierce opposition.

Well i can't comment on their motives but it does show that the Russians have heavily underestimated this, they assumed they just marched in with thanks and be done with it in a few hours/days but the opposite is true

 

[FishFright]

At times like this it is to remember that the propaganda machine will be running full bore spreading BS about the Russian military.

Especially the bits that reinforce the Cold War nonsense /

But if it supports your point of view feel free to repost it .

 

[AuroraSaab]

As I understand it, Russia has conscription with a mandatory 2 year period of service. Seems likely that many of those sent to Ukraine will be reluctant young men with little experience and little appetite for actual warfare. Hopefully this will work in the Ukrainian's favour and ideally it would lead to early surrender and becoming pow's rather than additional victims of Putin's ambition.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I haven't watched a lot of the videos, for one it's difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, for another a lot of them are just too heartbreaking.
However, what I have seen of the captured Russian troops are videos of scared boys (all claiming to have beleived they were taking part in exercises, which I don't believe they believe), they're all someone's sons, brothers, boyfriends etc.

To be honest i do believe that genuinely believed that, also supported by the fact that until about a week ago many of the Ukrainians officials didn't expect to be in this situation. But when you are in that situation, it's a bit like the scientist who i saw in a documentary being called a hero during the Chernobyl disaters for going in the building to try and extinquis the fire. He looked at the reporter and then told him i'm no hero's it's Russia if they tell you to do something you do what they tell you, there is no if and but's

There is a huge human cost on both sides of this, and the people directing this war will most likely not suffer as a consequence.

Edit: Cross posted with @mudsticks and kinda said the same thing.

Yes they will never send Putin the the frontline, Ukraine has more balls with their government filming themselves armed on the streets. Instead of taking the offer from the us and are countries to get an airlift out of there. But i guess that's also what makes them so succesfull against a much more powerfull enemy.

 

[winjim]

Good news for all the wannabes on twitter busy dispensing tactical urban warfare advice. The foreign secretary has said that she will support any British citizens who want to go to Ukraine and take up arms against the Russians.

She won't, of course.

Sorry, forgot to add, neither will they.

 

[mudsticks]

Sorry, forgot to add, neither will they.

Shame -

All that practice on "Call of Duty" 1,2,3,4,5,6, and doubtless 7 thru to 27.

All for naught ..

 

[Hitchington]

I dunno...

 

[mudsticks]

I dunno...
View attachment 796

Well you could say, it's a low carbon way, to gather in the hay...

 

[BoldonLad]

Good news for all the wannabes on twitter busy dispensing tactical urban warfare advice. The foreign secretary has said that she will support any British citizens who want to go to Ukraine and take up arms against the Russians.

She won't, of course.

Haven't noticed @Fab Foodie posting recently, has he already set off?, there was a post suggesting he should get his "boots on the ground", if I recall?

 

[BoldonLad]

Most of them ''conscription'' so miltary duty, and they where under the impression of doing exercises in Belarus.
Then send to Ukraine with no communications plan whatever, where they are met with very fierce opposition.

Well i can't comment on their motives but it does show that the Russians have heavily underestimated this, they assumed they just marched in with thanks and be done with it in a few hours/days but the opposite is true

Sounds a bit like the "it will be over by Christmas" of WW1 fame, 4 years later, and, a few millions dead.....

 

[BoldonLad]

From behind the Torygraph pay wall..
For those (understandably) squeamish about visiting such places .



" MI6 chief believes Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine could be 'unwinnable'
Richard Moore says 'fascinating' theory that Russia cannot secure a wider political victory makes 'sense'

By
Steve Bird
26 February 2022 • 3:52pm
A Ukrainian soldier walks past the debris of a burning military truck in Kyiv

The head of MI6 has revealed he believes Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine will probably be “unwinnable” because the Russian president will never secure a wider political victory.

Richard Moore, the chief of the UK Secret Intelligence Service, wrote how a report by a leading professor was “fascinating” after it suggested the Russian president will fail in Ukraine because he underestimated its military might and its people’s determination to defend their country.

In a comment posted on his Twitter account, Moore, 58, said the article published by Prof Sir Lawrence Freedman, the Emeritus Professor of War Studies at King’s College London, which claimed Putin was “prone to outrageous theories” and an “unhinged rant”, made perfectly good “sense”.

The paper, called A Reckless Gamble, concludes that “whatever the military victories to come, this will be an extraordinarily difficult war for Putin to win politically”.


The professor points out how, despite their military “superiority ... and potentially overwhelming numbers [of troops]”, Russian forces “made less progress than might have been expected on the first day”, even though they had the advantage of “tactical surprise”.

“Yet it is still reasonable to ask if Vladimir Putin has launched an unwinnable war,” Sir Lawrence wrote on the website Substack.

Posting a link to the article, Moore, the foreign spy chief, wrote: “Fascinating. Makes sense to me.”

The intelligence service boss, who has more than 133,000 followers on the social media platform, stresses on his profile that “retweets show my interest was piqued, nothing more.”

It is unusual for the MI6 chief to comment so openly about speculation regarding international and diplomatically sensitive affairs.


Around the same time, he posted a comment praising this year’s LGBT History Month, adding: “With the tragedy and destruction unfolding so distressingly in Ukraine, we should remember the values and hard-won freedoms that distinguish us from Putin, none more than LGBT+ rights.”

He included an account of one of his intelligence operatives who told of their delight after discovering an “LGBT+ network group” shortly after joining MI6 which offered support and reassurance.

Earlier this week, Moore, known in Whitehall as C, took to Twitter to boast how his spies, along with their American counterparts, scored a considerable intelligence victory over Russia after uncovering Putin’s plans to order an attack on Ukraine.

'Unprovoked cruel aggression'
Moore wrote: “US and UK intelligence communities uncovered Putin’s plans for Ukraine.

“We exposed his attempts to engineer ‘false flag’, fake attacks to justify his invasion. This attack was long-planned, unprovoked, cruel aggression.”

Russia had dismissed the West's claims as anti-Russian hysteria and disinformation.


Although, perhaps inevitably, Moore failed to give any indication of where or how the intelligence was gleaned.

But, this latest approval of the professor’s paper offers a tantalising insight into what Moore thinks of Putin.

The professor wrote how Ukraine’s “spirited resistance” meant “we have been reminded that the morale and determination of those defending their country tends to be higher than that of those mounting an invasion, especially if they are unsure why they are doing so.”

He said Putin’s “less than sure-footed start to his campaign”, in part owing to an army with “limited” experience of large-scale ground operations, meant Russia would have to treat Ukraine with “more respect” and respond more methodically.

The professor concludes: “At times in democracies we lament the flabbiness, incoherence, short-sightedness and inertia of our decision-making, compared with autocrats who can outsmart us by thinking long-term and then taking bold steps without any need to convince a sceptical public, listen to critics, or be held back by such awkward constraints as the rule of law.

“Putin reminds us that autocracy can lead to great errors, and while democracy by no means precludes us [from] making our own mistakes, it at least allows us opportunities to move swiftly to new leaders and new policies when that happens. Would that this now happens in Russia.”

... The bolded bit is a good retort to all those 'Lozza Fox' sorts who seem to be trying to suggest that a progressive, and robust upholding of minority rights is a sign of weakness.

Prof Sir Lawrence Freedman, the Emeritus Professor of War Studies at King’s College London, was on BBC News, giving his opinion on possible outcomes, so, it is possible to avoid venturing into Torygraph land.

I wonder what kind of Career an Honours Degree in War Studies, sets you up for?.

 

[Deleted member 121]

I never said Zelensky is a neo-nazi, I simply rebutted your argument that a Jew can't be a neo-nazi, or in this case a Jew and a neo-nazi somehow can't be on the same side.

The long held tenet US followed during the Cuban missile crisis, and the basis of many foreign incursions / regime changes by various US presidents, is the Monroe Doctrine from early 19th century. It obviously says nothing about nukes, but rather hostility in one's backyard. Hence you do not need nukes to draw a near perfect parallel.

The Monroe Doctrine.... OK, so im supposed to draw parallels to this, despite this being the first time you mention it. Right so we've cleared that one up, finally. The Monroe Doctrine, widely supported by most South American's, particular in the earlier days and widely ignored by the likes of Spain for many years and enforced by the British for decades. Right....

Anyway......

The Ukranians have sadly been shafted, and I suspect you know which country I consider most accountable. Just learnt Zelensky has said Ukraine would abandon joining NATO and to maintain neutrality, so if he is suitably remorseful, accepts demilitarisation and will/can push through some form of Minsk II+, perhaps Putin might even let him keep his job. I think he is not a serious character so I don't think Putin will trust him, but who knows?

Bizarre statement. Do you think if Zelensky gives puppy dog eyes to Putin he will stop?

Putin knew the invasion is going to cost him/Russia dearly for years, but he is the one who is literally backed into a corner facing an increasing cost of inaction.

A load of pish... Putin was never backed into any corner and the Ukrainian war is nothing but a shameless land grab built upon paranoia and unfounded fears. Putin wants this war, he has his reasons, and those reasons remain locked into his own mind. No one is claiming the Ukrainian government acted without mistake and miscalculation, but diplomacy is always an option, in fact talks were still ongoing but Putin wanted to strong arm Ukraine into another puppet state, a choice the sovereign nation didn't want to place themselves into, they have been there before. A fact in that he also likes to completely wave his willy shaped nukes at foreign powers for not doing what he wants them to do and the constant deception regarding his troop build up and an invasion lead from a foreign country in Belarus that was allegedly a military exercise... A decision that has been alleged to have been take last summer with Sergey Shoygu, no verification of course... Im not some mindless "support west foreign policy" at all costs, i was and still am ashamed by the decision to invade Iraq for example, but using such is not mutually exclusive as seems to be the apologists favourite argument...