War with Russia

[Ian H]

I'm still at a loss as to how a traitor to the UK like Patel who went behind the back of the PM to try to make a deal With a foreign government has ended up as home secretary with the power to decide who quite literally lives in safety or suffers in a refugee camp. Utter madness.

Simple answer: Clown Prince Johnson

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Better late than never...

View: https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1498324731635843074?t=8vWJo_CkWLbMbJtWvuJSXw&s=19

 

[FishFright]

I'm still at a loss as to how a traitor to the UK like Patel who went behind the back of the PM to try to make a deal With a foreign government has ended up as home secretary with the power to decide who quite literally lives in safety or suffers in a refugee camp. Utter madness.

She's a great fit with the present Conservative government.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I'm still at a loss as to how a traitor to the UK like Patel who went behind the back of the PM to try to make a deal With a foreign government has ended up as home secretary with the power to decide who quite literally lives in safety or suffers in a refugee camp. Utter madness.

I see that she has refused requests to open up to all Ukrainian refugees for fear of, get this, Russian infiltration! Is she fųcking joking?

 

[Ian H]

I'm really not sure this is a sensible thing to do just at the moment.

View: https://twitter.com/ianbateson/status/1498326574600536072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498326574600536072%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2022%2Ffeb%2F28%2Frussia-ukraine-war-latest-news-update-conflict-belarus-putin-nuclear-deterrence-order-kyiv-russian-invasion-live-updates

 

[winjim]

I'm really not sure this is a sensible thing to do just at the moment.

View: https://twitter.com/ianbateson/status/1498326574600536072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498326574600536072%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2022%2Ffeb%2F28%2Frussia-ukraine-war-latest-news-update-conflict-belarus-putin-nuclear-deterrence-order-kyiv-russian-invasion-live-updates

Was this released before or after today's negotiations? I would guess afterwards.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Was this released before or after today's negotiations? I would guess afterwards.

I read about it before today's meeting. My guess is that it's a warning about Ukraine being pushed into the camp of Russia's enemies and that it will come off the table if some kind of peace deal can be done.

 

[winjim]

I read about it before today's meeting. My guess is that it's a warning about Ukraine being pushed into the camp of Russia's enemies and that it will come off the table if some kind of peace deal can be done.

Yes, I was taking it as a signal that talks had failed but having read that they intend to go back for more tomorrow, it does make sense as a point of negotiation.

 

[FishFright]

The optimist in me sees this ending fairly soon with Russia getting the land East of the Dnieper river ( where most of the ethnic Russians live) in exchange for peace and letting the more Eurocentric Western two thirds of Ukraine to get on with building its relations with the EU plus softening the rhetoric on joining NATO.

 

[Milzy]

The optimist in me sees this ending fairly soon with Russia getting the land East of the Dnieper river ( where most of the ethnic Russians live) in exchange for peace and letting the more Eurocentric Western two thirds of Ukraine to get on with building its relations with the EU plus softening the rhetoric on joining NATO.

I can’t see this at all. Why couldn’t the Minsk agreement work? Because USA & U.K. didn’t want it to that’s why.

 

[newfhouse]

I take it you say these are Putin's disease. While the first two are undoubtedly true (but don't they apply to pretty much all leaders of all countries), the only important one i.e. the last does not pass the smell test - nothing Putin could ever do, short of capturing half a dozen NATO countries, will ever achieve former glory, will it? I believe Putin is, in his mind, rationally in my view, fighting an existential threat for Russia, for the reason I offer below.





Setting military attack up to be a necessary condition for an existential threat and therefore war, is a suitable rule for the school playground. But here, it is frankly naive. You should take a look at what gave rise to the colour revolutions and Arab Springs. Then tell me, for so many of those in the last two decades, which has delivered health and prosperity to their citizens? The bitter truth, is nearly all if not all came off worse, some much worse. See this and this.

Yet, this is exactly what the US and its poodles continue to push, so what if the people are going to die and go hungry, it can't hurt if every other foreign country is balkanised, can it?

Actually you don't even need to look beyond your own backyard to get a feel. United Your Kingdom is sadly going that way soon enough.



I am sure I am a worse military strategist than you are.

If the encircling holds, my understanding is that it would be very difficult for foreign arms to smuggle through, especially to the East and it is a huge country. Putin achieved air superiority earlier today I believe.

It is the Western mass media that says it takes 3 days and the same mass media that says voila Putin must be in trouble without holding Kyiv by day 3. With vastly superior firepower and zero regard for destruction and deaths of brown uncivilised people, I believe all the Iraqi cities still stood after 5 days when US/UK attacked. It took Hitler 13 weeks to take Ukraine.

Regarding what next, I imagine Putin considers it preferable to starve rather than to shoot armed civilians in cities to submission, and e.g. 45,000 Ukranian troops, likely including most of the neo-nazi brigades, are encircled in Donbas per map below, and they might get eliminated by air or bombardment if Zelensky does not comply with some cast iron Minsk II+ conditions, which none of the successive democratic (i.e. blindly nationalistic) Ukrainian governments post coup was wise enough to accept, because it wouldn't have been popular.

Actually, one of the reasons why non-elected governments can be more peaceful and stable is because they have zero incentive to be self-harmingly nationalistic, something few liberal-democrats would cross their mind, but unfortunately a lesson Ukraine is paying a very high price to learn. I can tell you China e.g. has every reason to become virulently nationalistic with foreign policies to match if it became a liberal democracy - we should be VERY careful what we wish for.

I would have thought Putin has all the time in the world, they certainly have had long enough to plan this. That is of course not to say he is not paying a high, or perhaps even the ultimate price ultimately, or would want to stay a minute longer than he has to.


View: https://twitter.com/miladvisor/status/1498048463510065152

I’m out. It’s like listening to Chemical Ali only with more victim blaming and less pith.

 

[slowmotion]

Here's an article from The Atlantic....

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...dymyr-zelensky-courage-ukraine-russia/622948/

Well worth a read IMVHO.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I can’t see this at all. Why couldn’t the Minsk agreement work? Because USA & U.K. didn’t want it to that’s why.

How exactly did the US and UK stop the agreement, involving Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France, working?

Sounds as if you agree with Russia’s envoy to the OSCE Alexander Lukashevich who recently said Ukraine’s "foreign sponsors" encourage Kiev to sabotage the Minsk accords by shipping weapons to the country.

 

[Milzy]

I’m out. It’s like listening to Chemical Ali only with more victim blaming and less pith.

He talks unbiased sense with facts.

 

[the snail]

I'm really not sure this is a sensible thing to do just at the moment.

There's really little to be gained by appeasing Putin at this point, my guess is that the Ukraininans will demand that Putin leaves their territory and will assert their sovereignty 100% I don't think it's about the military situation - it would be extraordinary if the russians failed to beat the Ukrainians, but Putin has possibly lost the battle politically already. He's failed to convince his own people, united europe, strengthened NATO, and the russian economy will be devastated in pretty short order. How will he even pay for this escapade, and what's the exit strategy. It's a massive miscalculation on his part, you have to wonder how long he'll last if his mafia cronies are losing money.