stowie
Active Member
According to Wikipedia it spans Europe and Asia.
Maybe the EU will end up having the same definition of Europe as the Eurovision song contest.
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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According to Wikipedia it spans Europe and Asia.
Maybe the EU will end up having the same definition of Europe as the Eurovision song contest.
newfhouse
pleb
It’s all about self identification now. After all, the UK has come out as Pacific rather than Atlantic and applied to join the CPTPP.
the snail
Active Member
Apparently polls are now showing widespread support in Finland and Sweden for joining NATO.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
So the question then remains, will the west also watch as they are bombed before joining Nato? While Russia threath to nuclear bomb anyone who isn't playing their game?
deptfordmarmoset
Über Member
He hasn't threathened anyone though, just put out a message about putting the big nuclear boys on special alert. Meanwhile, he's NATO's and EU's greatest recruiter.
qigong chimp
Settler of gobby hash.
I sense the hand of Gaia in all this.
Time for the entomocene?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs
(I'd not noticed before that Lehrer was up on his Tennyson..)
Time for the entomocene?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs
(I'd not noticed before that Lehrer was up on his Tennyson..)
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stowie
Active Member
Finland and Sweden are part of the EU. Although not a defense / military organisation, this would have profound consequences to the integrity of the EU which would reverberate around the world. As terrible as it is to say, I would image an invasion into EU nation states would trigger a much wider war in a similar way to an attack on a NATO country.
I have just heard in the latest discussion programme on the war and Putin that in re-equipping and modernising the Russian forces over the last 15 years or so, the Russians have installed rockets in the Kaliningrad region, formerly Königsberg in the old East Prussia. These could be fitted with nuclear warheads, and could reach most of the capital cities in western Europe.
I think this puts some perspective on the line of thinking that this is all down to the West poking the Russian bear.
I think this puts some perspective on the line of thinking that this is all down to the West poking the Russian bear.
Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
Surely we can do better than this lazy euphemism?
How about Putin and some of his actions? Ordering political opponents and those who dare criticise him to be poisoned by agents in our and other countries? How about Putin funding opponents of the EU (Banks, Farage, Galloway, Fox) and interfering in elections? How about Putin funding cyber attacks on organisations in this country and the West not to mention the continuous wave of misinformation coming from Putin's bot and troll factories which is saturating social media?
Is it any wonder that democratically elected governments in former Eastern block countries, and those bordering Putin's Russia, want to join the EU and/or Nato?
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mjr
Active Member
except for the European Defence Agency which so many kippers objected to, and the related agencies and services formed after the EU took on the old WEU functions. Denmark is the only opt-out of common defence. Finland and Sweden joined.
I dislike it too, like 'thowing the baby out with the bathwater'.
I think following the breakup of the Soviet Union there was a chance to integrate Russia into a democratic way of life under the rule of law. This extended perhaps for some 15 years after 1991. It was squandered by the West who did little to help the countries of eastern Europe to dismantle the failed socialist command economies and replace it with a social market economy. They were left to flounder. The Americans in particular should take responsibility for assuming that 'the market' minus the social aspect would automatically sort out all of the inherited problems.
Move on to post 2005 and Putin gradually moved away from the newly won freedoms albeit still limited back in the direction of the old Soviet state, with increasing repression. Even Stalin has had limited rehabilitation. It may be the Anglo-Saxons increasingly liked 'poking', but the Germans certainly didn't, and significant increases in trade were considered to be a sure way of helping Russia go in a politically healthier direction. Merkel was taken in - something increasingly recognised, but Nord Stream 2 was heavily pushed by the social democrats in the grand coalition. The project was designed to get round gas from Russia having to go through the Ukraine.
Putin's actions have reversed in a single day about 30 years of German policy towards the east. The 2%+ NATO target, rearmament of the Bundeswehr and supplying weapons to the Ukraine. The speed of getting away from fossil fuel use will be increased, which long term will hit the Russian economy which is heavily dependent on trading these resources.
The hard left, Die Linke, have also had a wake up call. I cannot but wonder if there was a residual loyalty to the old Soviet Union amongst some in their ranks, after all Putin is a product of the Soviet Union.
I do not doubt that this is an unjust war, but there is no little hypocrisy in the condemnation of it by the West in view of the military interventions of more than dubious legality or morality in sundry parts of the world.
stowie
Active Member
Yes - although I always thought of this as more strategic co-operation on weapon development etc. But could be wrong.
If Russia invaded any particular EU country then they would be attacking one of the three major economic centres of the world. That in itself would have huge consequences
Solocle
New Member
Article 42.7 of the Lisbon Treaty resembles NATO Article 5.
Since France has nuclear missiles, an attack on any EU member state would be liable to start a nuclear war.
Then an attack on France, or indeed any joint EU-NATO member, would pull us and the US in.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Correction Putin has put the Nuclear boys on special alert, his Foreign ministers is constanly saying ''a WW3 would be nuclear and devastating'' so techniucally not a threat, but it is a bit the same as someone saying ''i have put extra big tyres on my car to over-run persons on cycles, and then continueing to close-pass person on a cycle.
Yes that where the ''Russian is the biggest recruiter rumors come from'' but the question is would it really happen? considering how mild the reaction is now after a few tiny vieled russian threaths that we technically can't call that way?
And the Uk altough not Eu anymore where still Nato as far as i'm aware. Having said that, would it really lead to an armed conflict of will economic sanctions do? Just as we apparently think that going to stop Russia in Ukraine..
