War with Russia

[Rusty Nails]

Widely derided as tendentious & misleading.

A bit like much of the stuff on this forum

 

[Deleted member 49]

I'm increasingly becoming convinced that we should go ALL-IN with sanctions: stop buying their gas, everything.
The experts* say Russia needs our gas payments more than we need their gas. Sure it might be painful for a while - at least if Putin plays hard - but worth it in the long-term to stop Russia basically crapping all over us until Putin leaves this plane (or longer). And the same for every other aspect of trade.

I was told about the world needing 40% of its grain from Russian - well that doesn't change anything! Carbs are evil anyway.

Do sanctions ever really work ? They certainly didn't work in Iraq.Biden has said the latest sanctions were based on the Iran model,has there been a regime change there ?
I can't see Putin being over worried about his own people being hit with hardship can you

 

[Deleted member 49]

We started a war to stop a war 🙄

View: https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1500886096837849099?t=HSk4TUIU77-Sz8R1vdGU5w&s=19

 

[Beebo]

We started a war to stop a war 🙄

View: https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1500886096837849099?t=HSk4TUIU77-Sz8R1vdGU5w&s=19

It’s not a war. It’s a special military operation.
How many times do you have to be told.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

We started a war to stop a war 🙄

View: https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1500886096837849099?t=HSk4TUIU77-Sz8R1vdGU5w&s=19

Good point there

imagine if people starting shooting, bombing and shelling cities and towns in the Ukraine???

All in all Russia are doing them a favour

(post may include sarcasm)

 

[Salty seadog]

It’s not a war. It’s a special military operation.
How many times do you have to be told.

View: https://youtu.be/5kbo8pUDcHQ

 

[Deleted member 121]

It’s not a war. It’s a special military operation.
How many times do you have to be told.

Indeed. Like our Economic sanctions are not sanctions. They are a "Special Economic Operation"...

 

[Deleted member 121]

I can't disagree with your sentiment, but think you might be over-egging Putin's expansion plans somewhat!

I hope so.

But the threat is clearly there. In being prepared we reduce the possibility and make the prospect less appealing to the Putin regime.

 

[matticus]

Do sanctions ever really work ? They certainly didn't work in Iraq.Biden has said the latest sanctions were based on the Iran model,has there been a regime change there ?
I can't see Putin being over worried about his own people being hit with hardship can you

There's a ton of research on this - have you looked at it?

 

[Deleted member 49]

There's a ton of research on this - have you looked at it?

A little....North Korea, Venezuela,Cuba,Iraq,Syria,Iran ?

 

[farfromtheland]

To say Europe could meaningfully reduce reliance on Russian oil and gas, is as stupid as saying the "West" could stop buying Chinese products. For the former, I refer you to the chart here.

I'll buy stupid.

Yes, a similar story. The US dangled a possible route to NATO to Saakashvili and this emboldened him to pick on ethnic Russian speakers who, at the time were pushing for greater autonomy. You can't join NATO if there are outstanding border/political issues. The US offered him military support to quell the troublesome areas.

Except, Putin kicked his ass and the Americans did not come to his aid. This created a frozen conflict whereas the Russian speaking area is largely independent.

The US did the same to Ukraine in 2014. Engineered a coup, using neo-Nazi* groups to remove a pro Russian leader (who was democratically elected) and replaced him with puppet. Hence, Farage's reference to 2014 events.

Putin did the same, and created a frozen conflict in Eastern Ukraine.

* This is why Putin continues to use Nazism as a reference when talking about the Ukrainian govt.

Because U.S. foreign policy achieves devious ends without outright war it's easier to forget its effects. There was a fair bit of press coverage of the Ukraine 'coup' in 2014. Not the same degree of outrage we have now, but certainly enough to cast doubt on Ukraine's democratic credentials. Have you heard the news about refugees of colour being denied exit by Ukraine's border guards? The whole thing stinks on both sides.

Not drawing the border a couple of miles inside of Russia would have been a great start. Allowing the border to be drawn effectively removing Russia's most important Black Sea naval base was a serious mistake too.

The region was in chaos at the time so mistakes were bound to be made but those two were always a conflict in the making.

Badly made borders and failed treaties (like Minsk) are the cause of so much tragedy.

I hope so.

But the threat is clearly there. In being prepared we reduce the possibility and make the prospect less appealing to the Putin regime.

Putin is an evil piece of work. However he has done what he said he would, on the whole, faced with NATO expansionism. NATO expansionism is not a feasible policy, neither is it ethically conscionable.

 

[matticus]

A little....North Korea, Venezuela,Cuba,Iraq,Syria,Iran ?

Whose research did you read?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Whose research did you read?

You could find research that will tell you want you want to hear,such as the article below.I hope your right and the sanctions can cripple Putin and bring this to a end sooner rather than later.Why don't you tell me where it worked before to stop a war or force a ceasefire ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/14/anatomy-sanctions-failure/

 

[matticus]

Since I posted that I hear that Pres Vlodomyr is beseeching us for harder sanctions, and
Pres Vladimir seems pretty rattled by those already in place: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...west-your-sanctions-are-akin-to-an-act-of-war

 

[matticus]

Meanwhile, in Ireland

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