Who Cares...??

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Ooo, don’t tell me….I bet he was an immigrant….
 
OP
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
Ooo, don’t tell me….I bet he was an immigrant….

Sooo tired of the endless p*ss taking.

So tired of hearing women telling me they're scared, and that their lives are limited, and diminished by these 'everyday' acts of abuse, harassment, and worse.

Decent men could do more, around their retrograde 'bros'

Wherever they come from.

The disrespect is normalised, expected, laughed about even .

Someone on another thread described women as being 'touchy' about stuff.

Who really cares.??

Not that many, it wouldnt actually appear :sad:
 
OP
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
New campaign from Police Scotland with an interesting video:

'Men are being urged by the campaign to "stop contributing to a culture that targets, minimises, demeans and brutalises women"'.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-14...men-to-question-their-behaviour-towards-women

It's long long loong overdue.

It was never our problem to fix..

But it has usually been spoken about as a 'womens' issue.

Just goes to show how deep that sense of entitlement, and lack of accountability is, in so many quarters..
 

pubrunner

New Member
It was never our problem to fix..

Agreed !

But it has usually been spoken about as a 'womens' issue.

Well clearly, it shouldn't be spoken about as a 'womens' issue', because the origin of such issues, lies in the (unacceptable) behaviour of men.

Just goes to show how deep that sense of entitlement, and lack of accountability is, in so many quarters.

Yes, this ^^^ is the root of the problem.

This is a problem that all men should reflect on - first, because such behaviour is (obviously) demeaning to women and secondly, because in order to feel 'safe', women will (understandably) feel the need to treat all men the same, as a form of self-protection.

I don't know what the answer to this might be, other than to ensure that my own son is brought up to treat all women (everyone) with the utmost respect.
 
OP
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
Agreed !



Well clearly, it shouldn't be spoken about as a 'womens' issue', because the origin of such issues, lies in the (unacceptable) behaviour of men.



Yes, this ^^^ is the root of the problem.

This is a problem that all men should reflect on - first, because such behaviour is (obviously) demeaning to women and secondly, because in order to feel 'safe', women will (understandably) feel the need to treat all men the same, as a form of self-protection.

I don't know what the answer to this might be, other than to ensure that my own son is brought up to treat all women (everyone) with the utmost respect.

Parenting is obviously a major part of it all, ideally all kids are brought up well, and that should be 'the norm'

Sadly, of course, that doesn't always happen..

But still much can be done through other channels, at whatever age.

Role models in real life, and in the media.
People having the courage to speak up.

Bothering to say something when the 'banter' starts up. Calling out the unacceptable attitudes.

Having those difficult conversations, that can feel awkward at first.

It was shocking to hear how normalised misogynistic attitudes were / still are, in The Met for example.

But that's not really an isolated case.

It's the kind of nasty 'culture' that flourishes under certain circumstances, and can only be sorted with effort.

It's a society wide issue.

Ignoring, or diminishing this problem, isn't acceptable, but that happens so often.

Some progress has been made in some areas.

But there's backsliding in others.

The internet has been a force for good and ill .

Encouraging more awfulness, in some areas.

Building awareness in others.

I think it could still be much better used to tackle this problem.
 

Mr Celine

Well-Known Member

pubrunner

New Member
So tired of hearing women telling me they're scared, . . .

As a male, even I have noticed an increase in the number of women who are scared and apprehensive - and this is from the perspective of being a long-term resident in a small, rural village on the Welsh borders.

As a responsible dog owner, I take my dog out twice a day, on one of the local dog-walking 'circuits around the village. Unsurprisingly, I frequently meet other walkers coming in the opposite direction; virtually all the women walkers seem nervous and apprehensive - despite the fact that I see many of them on an almost daily basis. The roads around here are very narrow (single car width) and I tend to say a cheery "Good morning" or "Good evening" and give them as much space as possible. If I go for a run, I actually avoid 'overtaking' female walkers - due to the fact that it might cause them to feel fearful, if they were to hear footsteps from behind. In my experience as a male walker/runner, there are many fearful women out there - and this is something that (in my experience), has become more commonplace in the last 20-30 years.

A couple of months ago, I was up in Shetland - I stayed on one of the smaller islands. I was out walking the dog and I happened to meet two women walking towards me - they stopped to talk to me (rather than vice versa) and I was actually quite taken aback, by how confident they were - clearly, they were in an environment where they felt 'safe'. They were interested and interesting; it struck me, that this sort of conversation just wouldn't happen on the mainland UK, but on a small, remote, crime-free island, such occurrences are commonplace.

'Guidance' for women includes such homilies as - 'plan your route home', 'let someone know where you are', 'walk on well-lit streets', 'look confident if you are walking by yourself', 'pretend to be on the phone' etc. Where incidents do occur, the victims are often regarded as being 'in the wrong place, at the wrong time' - which IMO, is victim blaming. We can and should, be doing far more to make the world a safer and more civilised place for women.

Currently, we live in a world, where women are told that public spaces are 'dangerous' - and that they must take steps of their own to stay safe. But surely, it is the behaviour of (some) men that is the problem and therefore, this is what needs to be addressed ?
 
OP
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
As a male, even I have noticed an increase in the number of women who are scared and apprehensive - and this is from the perspective of being a long-term resident in a small, rural village on the Welsh borders.

As a responsible dog owner, I take my dog out twice a day, on one of the local dog-walking 'circuits around the village. Unsurprisingly, I frequently meet other walkers coming in the opposite direction; virtually all the women walkers seem nervous and apprehensive - despite the fact that I see many of them on an almost daily basis. The roads around here are very narrow (single car width) and I tend to say a cheery "Good morning" or "Good evening" and give them as much space as possible. If I go for a run, I actually avoid 'overtaking' female walkers - due to the fact that it might cause them to feel fearful, if they were to hear footsteps from behind. In my experience as a male walker/runner, there are many fearful women out there - and this is something that (in my experience), has become more commonplace in the last 20-30 years.

A couple of months ago, I was up in Shetland - I stayed on one of the smaller islands. I was out walking the dog and I happened to meet two women walking towards me - they stopped to talk to me (rather than vice versa) and I was actually quite taken aback, by how confident they were - clearly, they were in an environment where they felt 'safe'. They were interested and interesting; it struck me, that this sort of conversation just wouldn't happen on the mainland UK, but on a small, remote, crime-free island, such occurrences are commonplace.

'Guidance' for women includes such homilies as - 'plan your route home', 'let someone know where you are', 'walk on well-lit streets', 'look confident if you are walking by yourself', 'pretend to be on the phone' etc. Where incidents do occur, the victims are often regarded as being 'in the wrong place, at the wrong time' - which IMO, is victim blaming. We can and should, be doing far more to make the world a safer and more civilised place for women.

Currently, we live in a world, where women are told that public spaces are 'dangerous' - and that they must take steps of their own to stay safe. But surely, it is the behaviour of (some) men that is the problem and therefore, this is what needs to be addressed ?

Yes it's really annoying that we are given this long list of things to do to 'keep ourselves safe'
Whilst were are very rarely the 'dangerous' ones.

Great - more shoot to do, and think about, and spend energy on.

Plus also of course working out whether police are the 'real deal' - trustworthy or not.

Building awareness and encouraging thoughtfulness around this issue is key though.

Actions taken, language used, thinking about it more.

I'm not generally nervous around men at all in most situations, so long as they're not being creepy or overbearing in their verbal or body language, I don't encounter it so much these days.

I'm one of those 'confident" women pretty much anywhere, but there are quite a few reasons for that.
Attitude, experience, physique, and not being prepared to have my freedom curtailed.

So many women however don't have that confidence, and that's not for no reason, either.
Some have had really horrible experiences.

I do get to hear from a far greater number of women now , going out and about by themselves and really getting a lot out of that.
Reclaiming their right to freedom.

Gaining more confidence, and independence, and enjoying themselves.

I really hope that will continue to build.

But there's still a lot more work to be done in other areas, in urban settings, in the workplace, in the domestic sphere, in the media and online, to create places where no one has reason to be fearful, whilst going about their perfectly legitimate lives.

Far more could be done to make that happen.

I really think it needs a lot more effort and understanding from the decent guys though, to counter some of the nasty stuff that is arising.

Not to just ignore it, and hope it goes away.
 
Polis Scotland against a culture that minimises and demeans women? Who'd a thunk it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58809585

I have a lot of issues with the Scottish government and police re: hate crimes law etc., but I did think the video was a refreshing change from putting the onus on women.

100
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I have a lot of issues with the Scottish government and police re: hate crimes law etc., but I did think the video was a refreshing change from putting the onus on women.

View attachment 100

It's interesting the whole active and passive voice thing isn't it.?

I've even heard

"Got herself pregnant"

And even "Got herself raped, or murdered"

As well.

But when it comes to positive activity.

Who are all the judges, firefighters, doctors, scientists, astronauts, surgeons, computer programmers, truck drivers, mechanics, prime ministers, farmers even, generally assumed to be. ??

Such a subtle use, or misuse of language..

But often with a powerful effect, that's hard not to see, once you've seen it...
 
OP
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
It’s a powerful expose of how the subtle ways we use language is important. Am trying to relearn daily….

It's the default language we've used everyday, we were brought up on it.

But it colours our assumptions, and reinforces our biases.

Even us trying to be more 'switched on' folk.

The fact that it often sounds clunky, or we trip ourselves up, trying to 'correct' ourselves.

Or that it sounds a bit 'weird' when we modify our speech, so as not to reinforce all these sexist tropes is revealing in itself.

It's just 'everyday sexism' that we swim in.

Being willing to learn, and consider, in good faith, is what's of primary importance here .

Getting it 'spot on' with the lingo, everytime, is not..

And of course you'll get the 'bad faith' agents, trying to make out your intentions are 'impure' because you don't get it right everytime.

Or just resorting to accusations of 'virtue signalling' if they're feeling too lazy, to do anything else ..
 
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