American bombshell? Roe vs. Wade....

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AndyRM

Elder Goth
What a lovely bunch of people..🙄

What would Jesus say??

Oh hang on, he wouldn't get to say anything would he??

"Well have no brown skinned peeps in 'our' church thanks.."
Nah, I reckon he'd roll with:

"Yo, I hang out with 12 dudes a day, and I'm f*cking at least three of them. And don't get me started on all the hookers I'm cool with. Everyone's on board.

"That said. See you m*therf*ckers trying to run up debts in MY HOUSE? Get the f*ck out of here."

So, in conclusion, Jesus was polyamorous and didn't like seeing people get taken advantage of. And some f*ckers think the modern interpretation that's been f*cked around by old whiiii....tttt...eeee..... guuuuyyy...ssssss for.

Nope. Boring myself.

Read your bible religious f*ckers, see what it's all about.

Yours,
A committed pagan, with the tattoos to prove it. Not that I need them, or that Jesus would have eithe..... oh, wait, I'm getting into that boring sh*t again.
 

mudsticks

Squire
I did not know that about pipefish.

Wait til the tabloids get to hear of it..

They'll be running a shocking, true life exposé, on the dissolute behaviour of negligent pipefish fathers ...

:sad:
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
However one of the tenets common to all (I think) religions is that only those "in" the religion will be saved, go to a nice afterlife, and those "out" will not, therefore it is behoven of those who are "in" to try to convert those who are "out".

That would not be an unreasonable thing to do!

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.

If there is no God or Jesus never lived or the dust of his bones are mouldering away in a tomb in the Middle East there is no point in 'believing'. If I am wrong about believing this I am never going to know anyway, at death I will cease to exist.

If, however, the above statement is true and it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment I would have thought it only sensible to think about whether we are here by chance or choice, whether life has meaning, are we in a moral universe despite initial appearances. Religious questions. Where does a sense of injustice or that the world is not as it 'should be' come from.

No-one here is going to avoid dying. If there is no God the discussion here of who is 'right' is pointless. No-one is ever going to have to give an account of themselves and what they have done in this life anyway. Death annuls everything. The Saviles of this world aren't resting in peace, they don't exist, and if a human court never got them they got away with all the evil they have done. If evil could ever actually be said to exist.

If, however, God exists there will be no escape. If you think this is a strange line of reasoning to go down it is because I have seen the footage of angry people in the States, and it has struck me ever more forcibly that they don't seem to have given any thought whatsoever that they might one day have to give an account, there might be an objective standard of right and wrong.

I have my problems with American evangelicalism in some areas, but they are absolutely right to add a moral dimension to the debate over this, and that what we do in this life actually matters.
 

mudsticks

Squire
That would not be an unreasonable thing to do!

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.

If there is no God or Jesus never lived or the dust of his bones are mouldering away in a tomb in the Middle East there is no point in 'believing'. If I am wrong about believing this I am never going to know anyway, at death I will cease to exist.

If, however, the above statement is true and it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment I would have thought it only sensible to think about whether we are here by chance or choice, whether life has meaning, are we in a moral universe despite initial appearances. Religious questions. Where does a sense of injustice or that the world is not as it 'should be' come from.

No-one here is going to avoid dying. If there is no God the discussion here of who is 'right' is pointless. No-one is ever going to have to give an account of themselves and what they have done in this life anyway. Death annuls everything. The Saviles of this world aren't resting in peace, they don't exist, and if a human court never got them they got away with all the evil they have done. If evil could ever actually be said to exist.

If, however, God exists there will be no escape. If you think this is a strange line of reasoning to go down it is because I have seen the footage of angry people in the States, and it has struck me ever more forcibly that they don't seem to have given any thought whatsoever that they might one day have to give an account, there might be an objective standard of right and wrong.

I have my problems with American evangelicalism in some areas, but they are absolutely right to add a moral dimension to the debate over this, and that what we do in this life actually matters.
Wow , you really think we can't have a sense of right or wrong without a 'God' figure in our lives??

Is the only reason atheists are not causing utter mayhem in the lives of others , is because of the secular rule of law.

Otherwise we'd have no moral code or humanity??

Absolutely there's a moral side to this debate.
Insisting that women carry unwanted pregnancy to term with all attendant problems arising from that..
When a safe effective way of terminating them is available??
Highly immoral, and unjustified.

The people angry about having womens rights threatened with being taken away, after they fought so hard for them, are angry about just that.

And probs very angry too, about the lying and hypocrisy that got those 'justices' into their appointments..

Not because they 'haven't thought about judgement day'..


You don't actually need an external god or fear of judgement day to work out what is or isn't humane, or the better option.

You need thoughtfulness, understanding, awareness, empathy even.

Not a book of rules of one religion or another supposedly interpreted, and funnily enough always written by men or a man.

Ah yes OK I see now, I can stand down with my ire...

This is all about Men's Gods, and their 'agents' judging other men..
Judging their violence, their hypocrisy, their mistreament, and neglect of the disadvantaged.
Their despoilment of our one livable planet..

So they can stay away from women's business then??

As a woman I'm free of all this judgement by men stuff already .

Phew :okay:
 

All uphill

Well-Known Member
That would not be an unreasonable thing to do!

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.

If there is no God or Jesus never lived or the dust of his bones are mouldering away in a tomb in the Middle East there is no point in 'believing'. If I am wrong about believing this I am never going to know anyway, at death I will cease to exist.

If, however, the above statement is true and it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment I would have thought it only sensible to think about whether we are here by chance or choice, whether life has meaning, are we in a moral universe despite initial appearances. Religious questions. Where does a sense of injustice or that the world is not as it 'should be' come from.

No-one here is going to avoid dying. If there is no God the discussion here of who is 'right' is pointless. No-one is ever going to have to give an account of themselves and what they have done in this life anyway. Death annuls everything. The Saviles of this world aren't resting in peace, they don't exist, and if a human court never got them they got away with all the evil they have done. If evil could ever actually be said to exist.

If, however, God exists there will be no escape. If you think this is a strange line of reasoning to go down it is because I have seen the footage of angry people in the States, and it has struck me ever more forcibly that they don't seem to have given any thought whatsoever that they might one day have to give an account, there might be an objective standard of right and wrong.

I have my problems with American evangelicalism in some areas, but they are absolutely right to add a moral dimension to the debate over this, and that what we do in this life actually matters.

Pascal's wager always seemed like a very weak argument to act as though one believes, just in case.

I am a lifelong non-believer and agree with you that what I do here, matters; I observe that some actions and thoughts do me and those around me harm, and other actions do me and others good. I include animals in others.

In the case of abortion I'm still thinking about the harm and good the possible choices do to all involved. It is clear to me that a complete ban on contraception and termination is firmly on the side of harm.

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
Pascal's wager always seemed like a very weak argument to act as though one believes, just in case.

I am a lifelong non-believer and agree with you that what I do here, matters; I observe that some actions and thoughts do me and those around me harm, and other actions do me and others good. I include animals in others.

In the case of abortion I'm still thinking about the harm and good the possible choices do to all involved. It is clear to me that a complete ban on contraception and termination is firmly on the side of harm.

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.

I am fairly sure that Jesus (as an extension of God) was against a bit of gambling and if he is omnipresent then he/she would know that people were just pretending. If I remember my altar boy days well enough then I also seem to recall that just believing in God is not enough after all the Devil believes in God.

And back to abortion. The Church should be the last people to listen to on women's reproductive rights after all the misery and pain they have caused to pregnant women and the children over the centuries.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
That would not be an unreasonable thing to do!
I didn't say that it wasn't. I said that we should be on our guard against it, as that is what religion seeks to do - usually for the betterment of those in charge rather than to do good in an absolute way. This is the downfall of religion.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Your sermon giver is lying to provoke sensationalist outrage.

I said that your quoting of the pastor was garbage because the vast majority of what he alleges happens isn't true.
This claim that MacArthur wasn't telling the truth reminded me of something that happened 7 years ago. Someone secretly recorded what was going on in Planned Parenthood abortion clinics and put it in the public domain (I think it was on YT). It was absolutely horrific, I remember it from that time.

MacArthur is right about experiments being carried out on live babies in such clinics:

“All injections were made into the umbilical vein through a short Teflon catheter which was then rinsed with 0.2 ml 0.9% NaCl; the whole cord was clamped on the fetal side of the point of entry of the catheter to prevent blood loss during the experiment. After 10 min (elsewhere in the paper, “in all cases the heart continued to beat during the 10-min period and spontaneous movement was seen”), the cord was severed close to the fetus, and as much blood as possible was collected into a tube which contained heparin as anticoagulant. The fetal organs were quickly removed and dropped into liquid nitrogen.”

http://catholicstand.com/experiment...fetuses-and-the-connection-to-infant-formula/

and you really do need to read this to get an idea of what was going on. The fact the article is Catholic is irrelevant, the blogger I read discussing this was taking his information from the videos. I never watched them as I think it would be too harrowing.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
This claim that MacArthur wasn't telling the truth reminded me of something that happened 7 years ago. Someone secretly recorded what was going on in Planned Parenthood abortion clinics and put it in the public domain (I think it was on YT). It was absolutely horrific, I remember it from that time.

MacArthur is right about experiments being carried out on live babies in such clinics:

“All injections were made into the umbilical vein through a short Teflon catheter which was then rinsed with 0.2 ml 0.9% NaCl; the whole cord was clamped on the fetal side of the point of entry of the catheter to prevent blood loss during the experiment. After 10 min (elsewhere in the paper, “in all cases the heart continued to beat during the 10-min period and spontaneous movement was seen”), the cord was severed close to the fetus, and as much blood as possible was collected into a tube which contained heparin as anticoagulant. The fetal organs were quickly removed and dropped into liquid nitrogen.”

http://catholicstand.com/experiment...fetuses-and-the-connection-to-infant-formula/

and you really do need to read this to get an idea of what was going on. The fact the article is Catholic is irrelevant, the blogger I read discussing this was taking his information from the videos. I never watched them as I think it would be too harrowing.

Thank you for bringing to our attention this important research which is used to provide care for, and save the lives of, very much loved and wanted premature babies.
 

mudsticks

Squire
This claim that MacArthur wasn't telling the truth reminded me of something that happened 7 years ago. Someone secretly recorded what was going on in Planned Parenthood abortion clinics and put it in the public domain (I think it was on YT). It was absolutely horrific, I remember it from that time.

MacArthur is right about experiments being carried out on live babies in such clinics:

“All injections were made into the umbilical vein through a short Teflon catheter which was then rinsed with 0.2 ml 0.9% NaCl; the whole cord was clamped on the fetal side of the point of entry of the catheter to prevent blood loss during the experiment. After 10 min (elsewhere in the paper, “in all cases the heart continued to beat during the 10-min period and spontaneous movement was seen”), the cord was severed close to the fetus, and as much blood as possible was collected into a tube which contained heparin as anticoagulant. The fetal organs were quickly removed and dropped into liquid nitrogen.”

http://catholicstand.com/experiment...fetuses-and-the-connection-to-infant-formula/

and you really do need to read this to get an idea of what was going on. The fact the article is Catholic is irrelevant, the blogger I read discussing this was taking his information from the videos. I never watched them as I think it would be too harrowing.

I'm sorry is this description of some medical science being done.

..However accurate or otherwise, supposed to make a case for forcing a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.??

Supposed to make a case for denying women access to safe reproductive healthcare??.

Because if so, it really doesn't do that
 
A good soundbite that actually does not stand up to scrutiny.
All laws control what people do - some with property, some with their body. For example the law says I cannot put Class A drugs into my body.

Not strictly true. No one has ever been prosecuted for taking drugs. Possession yes, definitely with intent to supply.

But there is no law against putting class A drugs in your own body, unless you're using your rectal cavity to smuggle drugs into the country.

In which case make sure the wrapping is robust otherwise the law is the least of your worries.
 
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