F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

[winjim]

What are you then?

A bloke, that unless you at some time encounter unfair treatment towards a loved one will never really be impacted.

I know you have young kids but are any of them girls, the earlier photo could have been any gender given your outlook, and if so would you feel aggrieved if a male born athelete knocked your daughter off the podium or shared the same shithouse?

Just asking like.

In a trans inclusive event, sometimes trans people are going to win.

What has this got to do with the attorney general?

 

[winjim]

It's a farking amateur bit of fun bike race structured to be inclusive. FFS.

 

[AndyRM]

What's your point, Andy? My point is a keen amateur male weight lifter can routinely break the Women's UK record because the performance gap M v F is about 40% in such events.

My point? Don't really have one I suppose. But then I'm not using a vaguely obscure artist to justify my position.

 

[Rusty Nails]

They did. They even got together and organised a bike race yet somehow everyone's still pissed off.

If the women of the Thundercrit club were integral to the decision process and approved of the formats then there is nothing to be pissed off about.

If the same process will apply to all sports then there is also nothing to be pissed off about.

 

[AuroraSaab]

My point? Don't really have one I suppose. But then I'm not using a vaguely obscure artist to justify my position.

Well if I knew the names of the c 700 boys and men who beat Flo Jo's 100m 10.49 sec sprint world record every single year I would list them for you. That might help you get the point.
https://fondofbeetles.wordpress.com...r-stronger-why-we-must-protect-female-sports/

 

[AuroraSaab]

If the women of the Thundercrit club were integral to the decision process and approved of the formats then there is nothing to be pissed off about.

If the same process will apply to all sports then there is also nothing to be pissed off about.

This is a fair point. The Thundercrit organisers made it clear they were prioritising allowing (some) cyclists to ride in their preferred category over fairness for women. Not seen any evidence they consulted female riders yet. Next year women will know where they stand and can choose whether to ride or not.

It's a farking amateur bit of fun bike race structured to be inclusive. FFS.

People seem to take events like this quite seriously and train quite hard. Why should women have their efforts dismissed because it's for amateurs and 'it's just a bit of fun' (in your opinion)? I suspect you might feel differently if you had raced against someone with an unfair advantage.

Women campaigned for a long time to have female sports taken seriously and they deserve to have a fair opportunity for their endeavours to be recognised, amateur or not.

 

[winjim]

This is a fair point. The Thundercrit organisers made it clear they were prioritising allowing (some) cyclists to ride in their preferred category over fairness for women. Not seen any evidence they consulted female riders yet. Next year women will know where they stand and can choose whether to ride or not.



People seem to take events like this quite seriously and train quite hard. Why should women have their efforts dismissed because it's for amateurs and 'it's just a bit of fun' (in your opinion)? I suspect you might feel differently if you had raced against someone with an unfair advantage.

Women campaigned for a long time to have female sports taken seriously and they deserve to have a fair opportunity for their endeavours to be recognised, amateur or not.

Not my opinion. The opinion of cis women competing in the event. Specifically the cis woman who won it last year. Nobody cared then, did they? Seriously, you've picked the wrong race to get upset about.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's the opinion of one woman who raced. Other women might feel differently. It would be a brave woman who spoke out against it under her real name though.

 

[winjim]

It's the opinion of one woman who raced. Other women might feel differently. It would be a brave woman who spoke out against it under her real name though.

You simply can't conceive of people experimenting with ways of making sport more inclusive and of everyone involved being absolutely fine with this can you? It's a very minor event, it was advertised as trans inclusive, as far as I can see it was trans inclusive last year, everybody entering was aware it was trans inclusive. They recognise it's not perfect but they're trying it out.

People are trying to do a nice and friendly thing and it's been jumped on by a load of transphobes. You know, I saw it on twitter yesterday and then when it was mentioned here today it just served to remind me how utterly predictable transphobia is.

 

[Rusty Nails]

People are trying to do a nice and friendly thing and it's been jumped on by a load of transphobes. You know, I saw it on twitter yesterday and then when it was mentioned here today it just served to remind me how utterly predictable transphobia is.

Transphobes will be transphobes and need little encouragement, but that should not stop debate about different aspects of the trans issue.

Luckily I have not seen any transphobic comments in this thread, which has been broader in scope than just this particular race.

 

[winjim]

Transphobes will be transphobes and need little encouragement, but that should not stop debate about different aspects of the trans issue.

Luckily I have not seen any transphobic comments in this thread, which has been broader in scope than just this particular race.

Oh, I consider even bringing this race into the discussion to be transphobic.

 

[AuroraSaab]

An event that has been running for 6 years and was previously divided by sex categories is now divided by gender identity, to the detriment of women, and you think it's transphobic to even discuss it?

It's a private event so the organisers can have whatever categories they like but the idea that people can't discuss changes that disadvantage women without being labelled transphobic is simply a tactic for shutting down debate.

Most of the UK population will be transphobic by your criteria. 'Transphobe' is a slur that has lost all meaning so most people don't give a toss about being labelled one.

Edit: The event was inclusive. Noone was stopped from racing because they were transgender. I'm simply suggesting that they should race in the appropriate sex class in order to be fair to women. Emily Bridges was quite happily winning in the Men's team in uni cycling a few weeks ago.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Oh, I consider even bringing this race into the discussion to be transphobic.

I think you are wrong.

It has been shown, and agreed as a result of that discussion, that this race is different to the broader topic of organisation of trans inclusion in sport in that the participants were happy with the categories, but to say that even to raise the race is transphobic is starting down a very slippery slope of limiting involvement in any debate because of fear of being tarred with the transphobe brush.

 

[winjim]

In the context it was brought up it was transphobia pure and simple.

 

[Rusty Nails]

In the context it was brought up it was transphobia pure and simple.

If only it were so pure and simple.