F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

[BoldonLad]

Did they? Or did they just get some criticism pointing out the inequality shown by the results? How did they demonstrate that the people "piling on" were transphobes? Did they actively post hateful and malicious text, or just challenge whether it really worked given the result?

The label "transphobe" is used too readily to mean "anyone who disagrees with what I think".

Now, that is familiar, where have I seen that before?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Oh I did look it up but it’s not something that I’d refer to myself .

Lots of women, including me, don't like the label cis because it makes (biological) women a sub set of their own sex. There's only one category of women and you can't identify into it.

This analogy is often used to explain it:

If Rachel Dolezal called herself 'trans black' and called black people 'cis black' we would rightfully reject it. Firstly it makes black people a sub set of their own race, and secondly it defines black people in relation to someone who isn't even black.

I'm not a sub set of my own sex. I have nothing uniquely in common with any man that could justify putting us both in the category 'women'. 'Cis' is a nonsense word.

 

[winjim]

The woman you quoted was Jo Smith who came third. She is part of the group who actually organised the ThunderCrit competition so of course she's on board with it. She has made her Twitter feed public again - I'm not seeing any of the abuse you said she was getting on it.

Women who object to males competing in the female category are afraid to speak out. They lose places in teams, scholarships, sponsors, and face abuse. It's only retired athletes and coaches like Navratilova, Sharon Davies, and Linda Blade who can stomach the fight. Who can blame them?

If it was just about playing with your friends we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I also quoted Kitty Dennis who came fourth this year and won last year.

I could give you Jess Morgan whose idea it was to have trans inclusive categories. Here she is pointing out the fun with friends element above the competitive.

The Steezy collective, formed to support women, NB and trans cyclists fielded riders in the event.

https://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/stories/everyday-trailblazers


These are not women lurking in the background afraid to speak out. They are organising events, organising groups, supporting each other and their trans and NB colleagues. You do them a disservice.

 

[icowden]

Gender dysphoria is not, according to the NHS, a mental illness.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

It *was* categorised as such. However it has been re-categorised according to the WHO. It doesn't seem to have been a particularly medically driven decision to re-categorise it though.

Dr Lale Say, a reproductive health expert at the World Health Organization, said: "It was taken out from mental health disorders because we had a better understanding that this was not actually a mental health condition, and leaving it there was causing stigma.
"So in order to reduce the stigma, while also ensuring access to necessary health interventions, this was placed in a different chapter."

 

[MrGrumpy]

Lots of women, including me, don't like the label cis because it makes (biological) women a sub set of their own sex. There's only one category of women and you can't identify into it.

This analogy is often used to explain it:

If Rachel Dolezal called herself 'trans black' and called black people 'cis black' we would rightfully reject it. Firstly it makes black people a sub set of their own race, and secondly it defines black people in relation to someone who isn't even black.

I'm not a sub set of my own sex. I have nothing uniquely in common with any man that could justify putting us both in the category 'women'. 'Cis' is a nonsense word.

I agree btw !

 

[winjim]

Would it help if we used Z and E?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Would it help if we used Z and E?

Why does it even exist?

It's either Woman or Man, anything else is just that, something else.

As said above what would happen if people started going around adding bullsh1t tags to people born Black or Chinese or Aborigine for example?

C'mon Jimmy lad, let us in on your secret, why so passionate about something that doesn't really affect you (or does it?).

 

[AuroraSaab]

These are not women lurking in the background afraid to speak out. They are organising events, organising groups, supporting each other and their trans and NB colleagues. You do them a disservice.

No, they aren't afraid to speak out. Why would they be? They are fully on board with it. That's fine, but many other women don't feel the same. They aren't going to get the abuse that women who criticise males in women's sports frequently get, like Navratilova or Davies. Why is that do you think? It's because the critics of Jo, Kitty, et al, are mainly other women and they don't generally send the vitriolic abuse and death threats that trans activists send. Women aren't a monolith so you would expect different views, but I'd be surprised if most women athletes felt the same as them.
If they did Emily Bridges wouldn't have been prevented from riding after an alleged threat of a walk out by the other cyclists.

Edited for spelling

 

[winjim]

No, they aren't afraid to speak out. Why would they be? They are fully on board with it. That's fine, but many other women don't feel the same. They aren't going to get the abuse that women who criticise males in women's sports frequently get, like Navratilova or Davies. Why is that do you think? It's because the critics of Jo, Kitty, et al, are mainly other women and they don't generally send the vitriolic abuse and death threats that trans activists send. Women aren't a monolith so you would expect different views, but I'd be surprised if most women athletes felt the same as them.
If they did Emily Bridges wouldn't have been prevented from riding after an alleged threat of a walk out by the other cyclists.

Edited for spelling

I didn't realise Martina Navratilova rode fixed.

 

[winjim]

And leave it out about the death threats. I'm sure we could find examples of those received by trans people as well as well as gender criticals, but we're better than that.

 

[FishFright]

Ok - so explain the extreme reaction to JK Rowling speaking out for women's rights.

0/10 Fail

 

[lazybloke]

It's not unusual for sports-people to be classified by age, weight, sex or other characteristics to make tournaments more inclusive and relevant to a wider audience, and retaining fairness within each classification.

If someone is able to change category, entirely within the rules, but resulting in an apparent significant advantage over their new rivals, then it would appear that the classification rules are not working as intended, and a review/update is needed.

These problems can be recognised from a simple viewpoint of fairness, and need not be borne out of transphobia.

Anyway, there's a simple solution of adding new classifications where appropriate.

That way, trans-men don't lose out to biological men.​

And biological women don't lose out to trans-women.​

All have a fair chance at the podium within their respective classifications.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I have just caught up with this thread after coming in from work today. @BoldonLad, did you really find those two earlier distasteful posts from our Wolverhampton whining gnat funny?

What on earth are you trying to achieve, other than patronise him and make it look like you share his views?

 

[winjim]

C'mon Jimmy lad, let us in on your secret, why so passionate about something that doesn't really affect you (or does it?

What I'm mainly interested in is how the argument is progressing and the examples which are being used. It's pretty much following a script, you see.

 

[Deleted member 28]

What I'm mainly interested in is how the argument is progressing and the examples which are being used. It's pretty much following a script, you see.

Why are you so interested though?