F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

[FishFright]

I've learned a lot about you though. I think we all have.

You learned something ? Surely not .

 

[Fab Foodie]

Trans ideology demands that you are all in or all out.

My ideology is for shaking it all about....

 

[FishFright]

If a school has a uniform policy that says a male pupil cannot wear a skirt, that would be discriminatory to boys and thus illegal. It has nothing to do with how that male pupil identifies. Same goes for girls who want to wear trousers. It's sex discrimination and your perceived gender identity is irrelevant.

Society does indeed tell children that certain things are for boys and certain things are for girls. Toys and clothes are more sex coded than ever. The answer to this is to work towards eradicating sex stereotyping of these things.

https://www.letclothesbeclothes.co.uk/
https://www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/

It's gender critical feminism that is doing this work. Transgender ideology does the opposite. It tells gender non conforming and gay kids they might be the opposite sex because they like dresses or like toy cars not dolls. Even the blue and pink trans flag is regressive. There's no trans ideology without stereotyping because otherwise how do you show everybody you are the other sex? The whole thing hinges on regressive stereotypes.

We should be telling kids they can wear what they want and play with whatever they want, but you can't change your sex, and you don't need to. Nor do you need a lifetime of drugs or surgery to do any of the stuff that is stereotypically associated with the other sex.

Labour are floundering because they are afraid to articulate the truth. I don't for a minute think that Starmer really believed it when he said 'It's wrong to say only women have a cervix'. I don't think Stella Creasy really believes 'Women can have a penis' as she said the other day. They have simply gone down the Let's Be Kind route without thinking through the implications and can't backtrack now.

We are past the point of bring circumspect about these issues. Teenage girls are having mastectomies and doing irreversible damage to their bodies with testosterone. Gay boys are being told they might be girls because they don't like 'boys stuff'. Starmer telling the electorate he favours unisex loos but isn't sure whether Veronica Ivy is a woman isn't going to cut it.

The thing with the sport thing is that if politicians admit that men can't be women in sport (and they can't, obviously) then it means they can't be women anywhere and the whole thing is exposed as the polite fiction that it is. You can't be a male on Tuesday for football but female the rest of the week. This is why trans activists fight so hard on the access to female sports issue.

Trans ideology demands that you are all in or all out.

You don't actually believe any of this twaddle do you ?

 

[icowden]

You don't actually believe any of this twaddle do you ?

You don't need to believe it.

If you want to test the last point, start a conversation about whether Trans-women are women on twitter and see how long you last...

 

[newfhouse]

If you want to test the last point, start a conversation about whether Trans-women are women on twitter and see how long you last...

Twitter can be a pretty polarising place that doesn’t always bring out the best in people. Surely the answer is “yes, for most purposes.” Once you accept that you only have to deal with a small number of admittedly difficult edge cases and allow everyone else to get on with their lives in peace and dignity.

 

[theclaud]

You don't need to believe it.

If you want to test the last point, start a conversation about whether Trans-women are women on twitter and see how long you last...

Ontological questions are seldom as straightforward as it's made out. Anyway Aurora's wrong about it being illegal for schools to have different uniform requirements for boys and girls. It would be nice if it were, but as far as I'm aware a successful case for discrimination has yet to be brought, and a quick survey of actual uniform policies will reveal that gender differentiation in uniform is alive and well and not under immediate challenge from the law. Braverman is doubling down on this.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Twitter can be a pretty polarising place that doesn’t always bring out the best in people. Surely the answer is “yes, for most purposes.” Once you accept that you only have to deal with a small number of admittedly difficult edge cases and allow everyone else to get on with their lives in peace and dignity.

Most people are happy to treat transwomen as women (whatever that even means) most of the time, including using their preferred pronouns, in situations where sex doesn't matter. But this isn't what is being demanded anymore. What is being asked is that they are treated as women in every single circumstance - and this is unacceptable to many women for the reasons that we have discussed several times.

If you think transwomen shouldn't be treated as female in all circumstances then that is a tacit admission that you know they are not women.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You learned something ? Surely not .

Why don't you outline your own thoughts on the topic if you are so keen to educate the rest of us?

Can humans change sex? Should how you self identify override sex in those situations where sex matters - in sport, in prisons, in domestic violence refuges, changing rooms? At what age is someone mature enough to start on a medical pathway, or undergo surgery, to effect a cosmetic transition?

You often make these interjections but seem reluctant to explain your own views.

 

[newfhouse]

If you think transwomen shouldn't be treated as female in all circumstances then that is a tacit admission that you know they are not women.

In most circumstances in daily life their genitals or chromosomes don’t matter either way so why should anyone care?

This argument reminds me a little of those who are against equal marriage saying that a wedding between two people of the same sex somehow diminishes their own marital status.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They don't care. The vast majority of people really don't care if a man dresses in a stereotypically female fashion. But, as I say, this is not the issue. Performing femininity does not make you female; it is not a magic spell which suddenly means your sex doesn't matter.

I don't think the analogy with gay rights holds either. What rights did women lose when gay marriage was made legal? When did gay men ever seek access to women's single sex spaces?

Some of those who have spoken out about the demands of transactivism are themselves gay - Martina Navratilova, Kathleen Stock, Simon Fanshawe etc.

 

[icowden]

In most circumstances in daily life their genitals or chromosomes don’t matter either way so why should anyone care?
This argument reminds me a little of those who are against equal marriage saying that a wedding between two people of the same sex somehow diminishes their own marital status.

The point is that as @AuroraSaab says, most people don't care either way and are happy for trans people to live their best lives. However as soon as the issue of protecting women's rights, safe spaces, sport etc comes into the equation, then trans women must be treated as women, no debate is permissible, no other view acceptable. Even Stonewall is facing internal division between the L and the T.

 

[AndyRM]

Debate, discussion and alternative viewpoints are generally welcomed in alternative communities. Unfortunately it's the sensationalist minority which sells the column inches, clicks and viewing time that the media feeds off and totally warps perspectives.

 

[mudsticks]

Debate, discussion and alternative viewpoints are generally welcomed in alternative communities. Unfortunately it's the sensationalist minority which sells the column inches, clicks and viewing time that the media feeds off and totally warps perspectives.

I'm not really 'in' the alternative communities , but I have a lot to do with them for various reasons, and I find what you say, to mainly be true.

It's when insensitive, ignorant people go flailing in with their unhelpful comments, and knee jerk assumptions that the defensive walls go up, and reaction becomes prickly, and polarised.

 

[AndyRM]

I'm not really 'in' the alternative communities , but I have a lot to do with them for various reasons, and I find what you say, to mainly be true.

It's when insensitive, ignorant people go flailing in with their unhelpful comments, and knee jerk assumptions that the defensive walls go up, and reaction becomes prickly, and polarised.

I think what it comes down to is mutual respect, which is tricky in a world where, from how I see it, everything needs to be pigeon holed for some reason.

 

[mudsticks]

I think what it comes down to is mutual respect, which is tricky in a world where, from how I see it, everything needs to be pigeon holed for some reason.

Either pigeon holed or dismissed as 'irrelevant' if it doesn't fit with the mainstream 'conservative' view...

And believing that complex and nuanced situations can be resolved simply, or summed up in a few 'easy' soundbites...