F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

[AuroraSaab]

There's no nuance, respect, or sensitivity in Stonewall's stance of No Debate, nor in one of their stated aims being to completely abolish the single sex exemptions of the Equality Act. In the face of seeing their sex redefined and their rights eroded, women are once again being asked to Be Kind.

 

[mudsticks]

There's no nuance, respect, or sensitivity in Stonewall's stance of No Debate, nor in one of their stated aims being to completely abolish the single sex exemptions of the Equality Act. In the face of seeing their sex redefined and their rights eroded, women are once again being asked to Be Kind.

I'm going to have to do some more research.

If it is really the stated aim of SW to have all the single sex exemptions of the Equality act removed, then that's an extreme position.

I'm guessing that will reduce their support.

'Being Kind' has to be reciprocated if it's to be maintained.

 

[newfhouse]

There's no nuance, respect, or sensitivity in Stonewall's stance of No Debate, nor in one of their stated aims being to completely abolish the single sex exemptions of the Equality Act. In the face of seeing their sex redefined and their rights eroded, women are once again being asked to Be Kind.

You know you're not arguing with Stonewall here, don't you? Lack of nuance cuts both ways.

 

[AndyRM]

Stonewall, like any massive charity, is not without its flaws. They do things I agree with, they do things I don't. There's plenty of nuance and scope for discussion there I reckon.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's been an aim since 2015 and first appeared in Stonewall's submission to the Select Committee Inquiry into Transgender Equality:

It's a target of other trans advocate groups too, not just Stonewall. It means self ID, even in those areas where sex matters more than perceived gender.

 

[FishFright]

You don't need to believe it.

If you want to test the last point, start a conversation about whether Trans-women are women on twitter and see how long you last...

A very close friend is a trans woman, another friend is in a long term relationship with a trans man, I've helped out at a trans support group. I've worked and socialised with several more trans people.

So when I see huge slab of bollocks I will point it out.

 

[AndyRM]

A recommendation for a review doesn't seem as hard-line as an aim or a target to me. More like "Can we have a look at this and think about it a bit?"

 

[theclaud]

You know you're not arguing with Stonewall here, don't you? Lack of nuance cuts both ways.

I've tried pointing this out but it doesn't get through. I'm opposed to both the removal of single-sex exemptions and to 'gender identity' being a protected characteristic, and IIRC I filled in a consultation document to that effect at about the same time but it doesn't stop her talking to me as if I'm The Enemy and pasting feminism splainers in every post...

 

[newfhouse]

I've tried pointing this out but it doesn't get through. I'm opposed to both the removal of single-sex exemptions and to 'gender identity' being a protected characteristic, and IIRC I filled in a consultation document to that effect at about the same time but it doesn't stop her talking to me as if I'm The Enemy and pasting feminism splainers in every post...

No true feminist…

 

[AuroraSaab]

Thing is, we have a lot of 'Why can't we all get along?' and nobody offering any solutions, or even willing to admit there are conflicts in rights on this issue.

I don't think you're the enemy, Claude. I think we agree on what the problem is - prescribed gender roles. My impression is that you think the solution is to expand the concept of gender and blur gender roles, whereas I think it is to do away with gender altogether and only keep differences between men and women in those areas where biological sex matters.

 

[AuroraSaab]

A very close friend is a trans woman, another friend is in a long term relationship with a trans man, I've helped out at a trans support group. I've worked and socialised with several more trans people.

So when I see huge slab of bollocks I will point it out.

You don't do anything other than complain, though. What's your solutions to the concerns that women have?

 

[newfhouse]

or even willing to admit there are conflicts in rights on this issue.

Are you sure?

 

[AndyRM]

Thing is, we have a lot of 'Why can't we all get along?' and nobody offering any solutions, or even willing to admit there are conflicts in rights on this issue.

I don't think you're the enemy, Claude. I think we agree on what the problem is - prescribed gender roles. My impression is that you think the solution is to expand the concept of gender and blur gender roles, whereas I think it is to do away with gender altogether and only keep differences between men and women in those areas where biological sex matters.

Of course there are conflicts, that's only natural. And sure, some folks go with the "why can't we get along?" angle but I think that's missing the point: getting along would be lovely, but it's not going to happen with entrenched views, which yours seem to be.

I may have been misinterpreting what you've written, but I've really not got the impression you're in favour of doing away with gender.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I may have been misinterpreting what you've written, but I've really not got the impression you're in favour of doing away with gender.

Gender is a social construction. It relies on stereotypes of femininity and masculinity.
Sex is biology. It relies on material realism.

Sex is why women are oppressed. Gender is how they are oppressed. The conflation of 'gender' and 'sex' erases the material reality of women's experiences, whose challenges in life are based on their sex not on the nebulous concept of what their gender identity might or might not be.

Why wouldn't anybody want to do away with stereotypes and allow people to express themselves however they wish, acknowledging differences between the sexes only when it is relevant? That's what gender critical feminists want.

 

[icowden]

A very close friend is a trans woman, another friend is in a long term relationship with a trans man, I've helped out at a trans support group. I've worked and socialised with several more trans people.
So when I see huge slab of bollocks I will point it out.

Ok - so explain the extreme reaction to JK Rowling speaking out for women's rights.