General Election 2024....

[winjim]

There wad a lot of concern raised then as Theresa's after every election.

In fact so much concern was raised that in 2011 a referendum was held & the majority of those who voted wanted to retain the current system.

That is called democracy.

To refuse to accept the wishes of the majority who voted is undemocratic


Sadly, we have lots of people in society now who seem unable to grasp that democracy is about going with the wishes of the majority who vote, rather than getting your own way despite the majority disagreeing with you

I think there's a bit more to it than that.

 

[qigong chimp]

Evil Corbyn's 'Toxic Socialist Headbanger' outsold Starmer's 'Pasteurised Mildlabourmilch'?

 

[Rusty Nails]

we cannot be a serious democracy when a party can win 65% of the seats with around 41% of the vote

It is worse than that. Labour had 34% of the vote (as opposed to 32% in 2019 when they were stuffed by the Tories).

John mcDonnell mentioned that the vast majority of people voted Labour just to get the Tories out.

More accurate to say that the vast majority of people voted for anyone other than the Tory party just to get the Tories out.
It is clear that it was dissatisfaction with the Tories, coupled with the split on the Right caused by Reform, rather than any real liking for Labour that led to the scale of the results. The fact of a similar level in the % voting for Labour combined with a huge, doubling of seats won supports this.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

A referendum on PR in 2011?

Yes, it was under the Lib-Dem Conservative Coalition on 5 May 2011. The public were offered the option to vote yes or no in answer to this question:

At present, the UK uses the "first past the post" system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the "alternative vote" system be used instead?​

​

There was only one version of PR offered, only 42.2% voted with only 32.1% of those who voted saying yes. We've never had a choice about different forms of PR so there would be no objection to another referendum because it would be a completely different choice.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

democracy is about going with the wishes of the majority

And is the public to be forever constrained by the wishes of a previous generation?

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes, it was under the Lib-Dem Conservative Coalition on 5 May 2011. The public were offered the option to vote yes or no in answer to this question:

At present, the UK uses the "first past the post" system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the "alternative vote" system be used instead?​

​

There was only one version of PR offered, only 42.2% voted with only 32.1% of those who voted saying yes. We've never had a choice about different forms of PR so there would be no objection to another referendum because it would be a completely different choice.

Can you imagine the chaos of a multiple choice referendum?, the simple yes/no or leave/stay was too much for many 😊

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Can you imagine the chaos of a multiple choice referendum?, the simple yes/no or leave/stay was too much for many 😊

Didn't we just have one where every leave voter chose their favourite version? I think we've lived that chaos.

 

[BoldonLad]

Didn't we just have one where every leave voter chose their favourite version? I think we've lived that chaos.

I think you have the tense wrong, shouldn’t it be “are living”?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I think you have the tense wrong, shouldn’t it be “are living”?

I stand corrected.

 

[Bazzer]

As I recall, there was a similar degree of discontent, but, of course, just like now, only from those not elected.

IIRC, the Liberal party as was, and later as the Lib Dems, for decades sought PR as a means of representation in Parliament being fairer. Both the Conservatives and Labour wanted nothing to do with it and were quite happy seeing the small rump of Liberals, Plaid Cymru, Scottish Nationalists and Irish non Unionist MPs, effectively powerless.
I wonder where the likes of Richard Tice stood on PR when he was member of the Conservative party? Presumably content for the status quo?

 

[BoldonLad]

IIRC, the Liberal party as was, and later as the Lib Dems, for decades sought PR as a means of representation in Parliament being fairer. Both the Conservatives and Labour wanted nothing to do with it and were quite happy seeing the small rump of Liberals, Plaid Cymru, Scottish Nationalists and Irish non Unionist MPs, effectively powerless.
I wonder where the likes of Richard Tice stood on PR when he was member of the Conservative party? Presumably content for the status quo?

yes, which was rather my point, maybe I didn't express it very well

 

[BoldonLad]

And is the public to be forever constrained by the wishes of a previous generation?

Unless you are talking about a previous generation who have all died out, aren't the previous generation part of the public?

 

[Rusty Nails]

Can you imagine the chaos of a multiple choice referendum?, the simple yes/no or leave/stay was too much for many 😊

I blame it on universal suffrage. It was much better previously when only the male upper classes could vote.

I don't know how those thick Germans and the rest of the EU manage with their systems.

 

[BoldonLad]

I blame it on universal suffrage. It was much better previously when only the male upper classes could vote.

I don't know how those thick Germans and the rest of the EU manage with their systems.

It would appear you miss-understood my point, which was, that the previously mentioned referendum on PR, apparently had a simple "do you want PR yes/no", but, what what was being proposed was a multiple choice of which of the several versions of PR would be preferred, if, indeed the voter did want PR. This is, I am sure you would agree, would be much more complex than a simple yes/no referendum. Would the referendum itself have to be PR, with first choice, second choice etc?

However, there are areas where I do wonder how it is that our European cousins appear able to deal with situations which are much more problematic in the UK.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

It would appear you miss-understood my point, which was, that the previously mentioned referendum on PR, apparently had a simple "do you want PR yes/no", but, what what was being proposed was a multiple choice of which of the several versions of PR would be preferred, if, indeed the voter did want PR. This is, I am sure you would agree, would be much more complex than a simple yes/no referendum. Would the referendum itself have to be PR, with first choice, second choice etc?

However, there are areas where I do wonder how it is that our European cousins appear able to deal with situations which are much more problematic in the UK.

There was only one kind of PR, the Alternative Vote system, on offer.