General Election 2024....

[deptfordmarmoset]

 

[BoldonLad]

There was only one kind of PR, the Alternative Vote system, on offer.

Yes, in the previous referendum.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It would appear you miss-understood my point, which was, that the previously mentioned referendum on PR, apparently had a simple "do you want PR yes/no", but, what what was being proposed was a multiple choice of which of the several versions of PR would be preferred, if, indeed the voter did want PR. This is, I am sure you would agree, would be much more complex than a simple yes/no referendum. Would the referendum itself have to be PR, with first choice, second choice etc?

However, there are areas where I do wonder how it is that our European cousins appear able to deal with situations which are much more problematic in the UK.

I think it's because they are given the chance to do it and get used to it. It is not rocket science, but people must be trusted by politicians.

The unfair anomalies thrown up by our unrepresentative fptp system must make it worth the effort to find something better.

 

[winjim]

There was only one kind of PR, the Alternative Vote system, on offer.

AV's not PR though is it?

 

[AuroraSaab]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out in France. PR helps the right wing but it will also bring the left and centre together to keep them out, which I think is how Germany is dealing with the same problem at the moment. Haven't seen a full breakdown of the UK results under a variant of PR yet. It would let us know what we might have been in for. Wonder if Nigel's been to Jaywick to sort the potholes yet.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

AV's not PR though is it?

I thought it was classed as such.

 

[winjim]

I thought it was classed as such.

I don't think so. It's a slightly more balanced way of electing a representative but it's not proportional as such when scaled up.

 

[icowden]

AV's not PR though is it?

And that's why the referendum failed. It was deliberately sabotaged.

 

[icowden]

The interesting thing now is we have a new far right political party that seems to have captured the hearts of the more swivelly eyed gammons who have been the backstop of the Conservative party.

Unless Labour also fracture it's hard to see a way back to power for them.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I don't think so. It's a slightly more balanced way of electing a representative but it's not proportional as such when scaled up.

You're right. Wiki says: Both AV and STV involve voters rank-ordering preferences. However, STV is considered to be a form of proportional representation, using multi-member constituencies, while AV, in single-member constituencies, is not.

The vote was widely presented as about PR at the time. Fancy that, the public being lied to...!

 

[icowden]

The vote was widely presented as about PR at the time. Fancy that, the public being lied to...!

This was result of the genius of the Conservative party at the time and the gullibility of Nick Clegg.

"Nick - if you support us with the tuition fees thing and we'll give you a referendum on PR..."
"er... ok"
<some time later>
"Here you go NIck, your referendum"
"But that's not what I asked for"
"It's about PR Nick."
"But"
"you wanted one, you got one. Now be a good chap and make me some toast..."

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I think it's because they are given the chance to do it and get used to it. It is not rocket science, but people must be trusted by politicians.

People must be trusted? How about politicians? They apply/want/chose a job where they main role is to serve the public and make sure the money the government manages is spend on making life better not worse.

The unfair anomalies thrown up by our unrepresentative fptp system must make it worth the effort to find something better.

Well look around you, there are many different systems but they all seem to be gobbled up by coorperations with lobbies etc., but the systems on itself work fine. There just ineffective as the world is currently defacto ruled by richpersons/coorperations

 

[Deleted member 159]

Only 5% of those who voted for Labour agree with their policies

The main reason people voted with labour was to oust the tories with 48% as the primary reason

What a damning indictment of how seriously in trouble is the political situation within the UK

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49947-why-are-britons-voting-labour

With such a low turnout, around 60% means some 80% of the British public did not vote for Labour.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Don't think those are mutually exclusive.
But 'To get the Tories out' seems like a good start.
'Woke' even.

 

[multitool]

What you haven't understood is that asking people to narrow their reasons to one is going to give an unrealistic representation of people's motivations.

For example, the primary motivation might be to get the Tories out because they want the implementation of Labour policies.