General Election 2024....

[winjim]

Starmer has anchored his leadership in the expulsion of Jeremy Corbyn. He's literally sat in debates and when asked why people should vote for him said 'because I expelled Jeremy Corbyn'.

It's absolutely a legitimate question.

And if he's going to come out and say that he straight up lied about it, there's no point in asking him anything else, is there?

 

[multitool]

It isn't important. It's an utter irrelevance if one spends a millisecond contemplating the realities of working within a political party. What was he supposed to do? Resign his shadow ministerial position for exiting EU and stand down as an MP? In fact he did just that in 2016 along with 20 other shadow ministers. He later took up a different role.

People in leadership roles (ie shadow cabinet) have to present a united front, even if they dislike or disagree substantively with the people they work for. It's the same in any job with a leadership role.

Thinking that 'this matters' is to infantilise politics and reduce it to petty gotchas. Whilst Starmer was in the awkward position of working for someone he knew would fail he was preparing his own leadership bid 18 months before the 2019 GE.

You cannot change the party from the outside, just as you cannot substantively change the nation outside of power.

 

[C R]

It isn't important. It's an utter irrelevance if one spends a millisecond contemplating the realities of working within a political party. What was he supposed to do? Resign his shadow ministerial position for exiting EU and stand down as an MP? In fact he did just that in 2016 along with 20 other shadow ministers. He later took up a different role.

People in leadership roles (ie shadow cabinet) have to present a united front, even if they dislike or disagree substantively with the people they work for. It's the same in any job with a leadership role.

Thinking that 'this matters' is to infantilise politics and reduce it to petty gotchas. Whilst Starmer was in the awkward position of working for someone he knew would fail he was preparing his own leadership bid 18 months before the 2019 GE.

You cannot change the party from the outside, just as you cannot substantively change the nation outside of power.

It is absolutely central to the question of whether he is any more trustworthy than the tory shower of shït, and by his own admission he isn't.

 

[winjim]

I'm not sure that cynically manoeuvring to replace one's leader is entirely how collective responsibility is supposed to work.

 

[qigong chimp]

Starmer came across to me as wooden...

Amusingly trolling both stone and metal, I thought.

 

[qigong chimp]

You cannot change the party from the outside, just as you cannot substantively change the nation outside of power.

Farage seems to have done just that to the Conservative party, and the nation.

 

[multitool]

I'm not sure that cynically manoeuvring to replace one's leader is entirely how collective responsibility is supposed to work.

Starmer did not remove Corbyn. Corbyn resigned, as was inevitable, after the disastrous GE result.

Exactly the same process is occurring in the Tory party now, but in technicolour.

 

[matticus]

It is absolutely central to the question of whether he is any more trustworthy than the tory shower of shït, and by his own admission he isn't.

I suppose that's a reasonable conclusion ... assuming you are unaware of everything the current Conservative party has ever done.

 

[multitool]

Farage seems to have done just that to the Conservative party, and the nation.

To some degree, yes, although the referendum was called to settle internal Tory party differences. Naturally Farage is exploiting the fallout, but it is opportunism as much as anything, I feel.

 

[icowden]

I watched the ITV interviews last night. It was strange because Starmer came across to me as wooden and awkward, Sunak much slicker and more relaxed, and yet Starmer is deemed to have 'won' by a considerable margin.

I also find it strange - not least because Starmer is a KC Barrister. This should be his bread and butter, and he should be able to take Sunak apart easily.

 

[multitool]

I also find it strange - not least because Starmer is a KC Barrister. This should be his bread and butter, and he should be able to take Sunak apart easily.

He can do that easily, but it wasn't a debate with Sunak, it was seperate interviews. He didn't really try and attack Sunak, he was responding to questions about his own plans.

There's an awkwardness about people's expectations of Starmer. On the one hand they want him to be honest about his plans, but when he is they complain that he isn't offering a message of hope.

I think he is essentially giving a message that things are shît and they are going to be shît for a bit. It's not a message people want to hear, but it's the truth.

 

[icowden]

He can do that easily, but it wasn't a debate with Sunak, it was seperate interviews. He didn't really try and attack Sunak, he was responding to questions about his own plans

I think part of it is that he doesn't want to do or say anything that will affect support, and there are so many Labour factions, that almost anything he says will upset someone.

A bit like Unite being obtuse and not endorsing the Labour manifesto. At this point they should really be on board with wanting a Labour government regardless of the manifesto. No-one gives a flying whatsit about the Labour manifesto as long as Labour are planning on doing something different from the current infestation of gibbering loons.

 

[fozy tornip]

"Wealth creation"?
What's the point if Michelle Mone's just going to steal it all?

 

[BoldonLad]

Starting to feel I missed out on slag/coal heap action, but we had plenty of other opportunities to be feral.
Can we get a BBC interviewer to ask Starmer and Sunak to share feral experiences?

Don't let it get to you..

I could share some more of mine if you want

I beg your pardon, we were not feral, we were just good Council Estate kids having fun and helping out.

 

[BoldonLad]

Labour Manifesto, Wealth Creation number 1 priority. Sounds good, only question is, "wealth creation for who" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69111362