Starmer's vision quest

[Deleted member 49]

Imagine if he actually had something about him....something to actually inspire people and to build a strong support from.
Instead it would be comical if his downfall comes from the very papers/right wing media he decided to write for.When I questioned this at the time many on here said "that's how you win voters back" lol.
How do we think that's going to play out now ? He hasn't had a ounce of what the last Labour leader got and allready he's looking shaky.Feck you can't help but laugh !

View: https://twitter.com/Tocialist/status/1523643608531816449?t=hvhUbCtDiK-hhKxz2MeVpA&s=19

 

[Fab Foodie]

That just shows how far we've fallen back.Imagine I. The current climate being so shoot as a opposition you make less gains that the Lib Dems lol.

Not really.
The LD's always get a surge-on when the Cons are doing badly, it's their protest vote of choice. There are some died-in the wool Con voters in the Shires as well as the progressive west-country who cannot countenance a Labour Govt. but could stomach LDs at a push.
But I agree with your general point that Labour should be showing a lot stronger right now.

The reality is regardless of Labours woes, that whilst left of centre voters outnumber right of centre, their votes are split between several option, where as voters for the right only have one. With FPTP, the option will always favour the Tories. Super-Corbyn couldn't do it when the LDs were at their weakest and Starmer doesn't look like he can topple the Tories alone. A resurgent LD party could be a big help to Labour come polling day.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Any Questions was pretty good this week. Matthew Parris made the point that he thought Kier Starmer would be gone as Labour leader before the next GE.

Let's assume that's a possibilty...who would be the best replacement?
Has Angela got it?
Could that nice Andy Burnham be brought back to do the top job from his mayoring duties?
Is there anyone else?

@theclaud and @Adam4868 who from the harder left of the party do you recommend?

 

[Fab Foodie]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-elon-musk-twitter?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

And...had not realised this connection....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ns-to-sink-starmer?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[Deleted member 49]

Any Questions was pretty good this week. Matthew Parris made the point that he thought Kier Starmer would be gone as Labour leader before the next GE.

Let's assume that's a possibilty...who would be the best replacement?
Has Angela got it?
Could that nice Andy Burnham be brought back to do the top job from his mayoring duties?
Is there anyone else?

@theclaud and @Adam4868 who from the harder left of the party do you recommend?

Let me get back to you on that,not that easy of a choice.It would have to be someone who actually had some policies I could vote for though.Just for starters I'd feck Wes Streeting off. Can't be doing with him,he gives me the creeps !

 

[theclaud]

Any Questions was pretty good this week. Matthew Parris made the point that he thought Kier Starmer would be gone as Labour leader before the next GE.

Let's assume that's a possibilty...who would be the best replacement?
Has Angela got it?
Could that nice Andy Burnham be brought back to do the top job from his mayoring duties?
Is there anyone else?

@theclaud and @Adam4868 who from the harder left of the party do you recommend?

Ah, Piano-Wire Parris! Let's not take anything he says as of especial importance. Beergate is nonsense on stilts, of course - I'm torn between feeling sorry for Starmer on that account and finding it hilariously funny.

(Thanks @HarryStopes)

He's also accidentally taken Diane Abbott's advice about something. There is literally nothing that will make Johnson resign, so I might as well tip my hat a little to Starmer if this move saves his bacon whilst failing to land one on Johnson.

Anyway, it's an odd situation given the state of the party's internal democracy - obviously I think Starmer is a disaster for the Labour party, but just when you think Labour couldn't have a worse leader, enter Wes Streeting...

I'm a Clive Lewis fan, as I have probably said before (yes, I know about the sexist jokes and the evasive response about the #metoo stuff), but I'm not hopeful of him getting on any ballot. Of the rest of the SCG, if Starmer hasn't expelled all the black women MPs by then, I suspect Dawn Butler would be popular with the membership, especially what's left of the activist base, and she's a smart and robust item. Outside that, I don't really have much faith in Rayner politically, but these things are all relative and I'd obviously back her against Streeting. Burnham is not currently an MP and there were very good reasons he lost to Corbyn before, including, well... the Iraq war. But he's been a better mayor than he was an MP, and got a lot of what people so wrongly claimed Starmer had before he got elected - plus if he's moved to the left/away from the authoritarian stuff and has a political programme to that effect I'll take it whether he has had an epiphany or it's just a career move.

Just thinking out loud really, so disclaimer that some of the above could be bollocks.

 

[winjim]

Ah, Piano-Wire Parris! Let's not take anything he says as of especial importance. Beergate is nonsense on stilts, of course - I'm torn between feeling sorry for Starmer on that account and finding it hilariously funny.

View attachment 1164
(Thanks @HarryStopes)

He's also accidentally taken Diane Abbott's advice about something. There is literally nothing that will make Johnson resign, so I might as well tip my hat a little to Starmer if this move saves his bacon whilst failing to land one on Johnson.

Anyway, it's an odd situation given the state of the party's internal democracy - obviously I think Starmer is a disaster for the Labour party, but just when you think Labour couldn't have a worse leader, enter Wes Streeting...

I'm a Clive Lewis fan, as I have probably said before (yes, I know about the sexist jokes and the evasive response about the #metoo stuff), but I'm not hopeful of him getting on any ballot. Of the rest of the SCG, if Starmer hasn't expelled all the black women MPs by then, I suspect Dawn Butler would be popular with the membership, especially what's left of the activist base, and she's a smart and robust item. Outside that, I don't really have much faith in Rayner politically, but these things are all relative and I'd obviously back her against Streeting. Burnham is not currently an MP and there were very good reasons he lost to Corbyn before, including, well... the Iraq war. But he's been a better mayor than he was an MP, and got a lot of what people so wrongly claimed Starmer had before he got elected - plus if he's moved to the left/away from the authoritarian stuff and has a political programme to that effect I'll take it whether he has had an epiphany or it's just a career move.

Just thinking out loud really, so disclaimer that some of the above could be bollocks.

This post makes me glad I'm not in an affiliated trade union any more. I'm quite happy for it to be SEP.

Both Corbyn and Starmer, since you ask...

 

[Deleted member 49]

Dawn Butler would be a great choice ! I know she's not been well recently and fingers crossed shes on the mend.

 

[Wobblers]

Citation needed.

It is always unwise to gneralise from your own beliefs. That you believe the SNP's gains were due to people wanting independence does not make it so. That the majority of the SNP's gains were before the ghastly "better together" campaign - or the independence referendum result - should disabuse you of that notion.

 

[theclaud]

This post makes me glad I'm not in an affiliated trade union any more. I'm quite happy for it to be SEP.

Both Corbyn and Starmer, since you ask...

Fair enough. I'm in Unite and pretty happy with the direction of Graham's leadership.

 

[theclaud]

Forgot to say - good to see you over here in the new ghetto, @Wobblers.

 

[Wobblers]

Some of the so called left maybe would of liked a little more vision....
Yet it seems like expelling members and abandoning his Ten Pledges' were that vision.Support for a £15ph min wage and not writing for The Scum might of been a start.In fact anything at all would of been nice.
Don't start that you never gave him a chance.He has been shocking.

Long time no see, Adam. Hope things are well in sunny Blackpool!

Actually, I agree largely with you. While I don't think he's been "shocking", he has been disappointingly mediocre. Readers of the Scum, err, Sun do need to be persuaded to vote Labour, so I don't castigate him for that. But he's been all too lacking in energy, vision [1] or any leadership qualities, frankly. I don't think that the "I'm not Corbyn" image he's projecting is nearly enough as a selling point. There needs to be more.To be honest, I'm wondering if the best thing he could do now is resign, given that he's now under investigation for breaching Covid rules. That's probably the most damaging thing he could do to the government, showing them up as the mendacious scofflaws that they are.


[1] At this point I'll lament the lost opportunity to call this thread "Starmer's vision thing". Goths will understand...

 

[theclaud]

Long time no see, Adam. Hope things are well in sunny Blackpool!

Actually, I agree largely with you. While I don't think he's been "shocking", he has been disappointingly mediocre. Readers of the Scum, err, Sun do need to be persuaded to vote Labour, so I don't castigate him for that. But he's been all too lacking in energy, vision [1] or any leadership qualities, frankly. I don't think that the "I'm not Corbyn" image he's projecting is nearly enough as a selling point. There needs to be more.To be honest, I'm wondering if the best thing he could do now is resign, given that he's now under investigation for breaching Covid rules. That's probably the most damaging thing he could do to the government, showing them up as the mendacious scofflaws that they are.


[1] At this point I'll lament the lost opportunity to call this thread "Starmer's vision thing". Goths will understand...

The thing with the Sun is not so much a point of principle as of awareness or understanding. In the Times today, people described as Starmer's 'friends' are describing him as having been 'blindsided' by the ferocity of media hostility. Where has he been the last 12 years, or however long it has been since a mildly reformist soft left leader got monstered for eating a sandwich? I don't even need to mention the media onslaught against Corbyn to make the point. I will, tho, obvs...

 

[Deleted member 49]

Long time no see, Adam. Hope things are well

Seems like no time at all mate ! Nice of you to join us.All is well with me and Blackpool.....living the dream in the Las Vegas of the North 🙄

 

[winjim]

Fair enough. I'm in Unite and pretty happy with the direction of Graham's leadership.

I wasn't keen on their capitulation to the Tory smoke and mirrors pay deal a few years ago, nor McCluskey's attitude towards Brexit, not that I paid it too much heed. FCS represents my specialism now anyway.