The Good News Only - thread...

[BoldonLad]

After leaving France?

If they're dumped in the water or abandoned on the beach at Calais then surely there'd be tons washing up or blowing around?

Lots of them never had any proper documentation. You can't just rock up in Damascus or Khartoum and get a passport..

While I take your point reference obtaining paperwork in Khartoum or Damascus, since @palerider is being pushed for evidence, do you have any figures for how many manage to travel through several countries without documents? I wonder how many are stopped and arrested en-route for having no documents?

 

[cookiemonster]

You've seen my evidence, such as it is.

Yours is no better, there's no way you can give verifiable evidence that all boat people turn up with a birth certificate, valid passport, bank cards, and their library cards for good measure.



As you might imagine, I'm hoping for a solution that doesn't involve rejoining.

No evidence then. Glad that's clear.

 

[Bromptonaut]

This is one piece of evidence that they turn up empty handed at the instigation of the smugglers:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/793/default

Q73-75

 

[Pale Rider]

No evidence then. Glad that's clear.

Then we are in the same boat with the migrants - no evidence of anything much at all.

Difference is I haven't chucked my evidence of origin overboard because I have no need to hide it.

 

[Pale Rider]

This is one piece of evidence that they turn up empty handed at the instigation of the smugglers:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/793/default

Q73-75

Blimey, I've no idea how you found that so quickly - you must teach me one day.

The bloke from the Home Office describes the number arriving with documentation as 'almost none', which I think takes care of that one.

Another quote struck me:

On the number of people arriving by small boats and the figures that you have given us, there were 465 in the first three months of the year and 2,012 in the second three months. Is that correct? Abi Tierney: That is correct.

So as recently as 2019/20 we were getting as few as 465 boat arrivals in three months.

We now get close to that number nearly every day.

No wonder the system is creaking a bit, or even a lot.

 

[icowden]

I have said many times, I am not anti-immigration. I prefer @glasgowcyclist ’s solution, above. Simply trying to point out, if you are trying to change people’s mindset then quoting paltry figures per head is not vey convincing.

I agree. That's why I found better figures :-)

 

[AndyRM]

Then we are in the same boat with the migrants - no evidence of anything much at all.

Difference is I haven't chucked my evidence of origin overboard because I have no need to hide it.

Have you chucked your evidence of this overboard too?

 

[Pale Rider]

Have you chucked your evidence of this overboard too?

I could have done because the job has since been sorted out by the Home Office.

They said in answer to a House of Commons committee, the number of migrants arriving with documentation is 'almost none'.

 

[icowden]

So as recently as 2019/20 we were getting as few as 465 boat arrivals in three months.

That was people arriving in boats. Not the number of boats.

We now get close to that number nearly every day.

Do we? Got any evidence for that? Is it the same quarter being measured? (weather does make a difference)
Just looking at this slightly xenophobic website:-
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker
The daily average for July was 128 people.

Certainly numbers increased in 2021 and 2022 post pandemic. 2023 numbers seem to be a little down.

 

[icowden]

I could have done because the job has since been sorted out by the Home Office.
They said in answer to a House of Commons committee, the number of migrants arriving with documentation is 'almost none'.

They also said that this is what the people being trafficked are told to do if they encounter border force as if they can convince the authorities that they are under 25 their chance of staying goes right up.

Maybe we should change our policy, then they would arrive with documentation. The problems are being created by our government. Not by refugees or people traffickers.

 

[AndyRM]

I could have done because the job has since been sorted out by the Home Office.

They said in answer to a House of Commons committee, the number of migrants arriving with documentation is 'almost none'.

So... what really?

People not having documentation isn't really any sort of evidence that they've chucked their passports into the channel now is it?

 

[Pale Rider]

That was people arriving in boats. Not the number of boats.

Do we? Got any evidence for that? Is it the same quarter being measured? (weather does make a difference)
Just looking at this slightly xenophobic website:-
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker
The daily average for July was 128 people.

Certainly numbers increased in 2021 and 2022 post pandemic. 2023 numbers seem to be a little down.

Yes, I should have said 465 migrants in an unspecified number of boats, although I doubt anyone was misled.

Even 128 a day is a massive increase and still equates to thousands of new arrivals each month.

No system could cope well with such numbers, particularly as the jump up was so recent.

Maybe we should change our policy, then they would arrive with documentation. The problems are being created by our government. Not by refugees or people traffickers.

Practically, that's difficult, because what do you do with 300 undocumented migrants who are standing, sopping wet, on the pebbles in front of you?

I would insist on at least taking DNA, fingerprints, and a mugshot before any of them get anywhere near to contact with the public.

The problem is the government's fault, but only because they have made this country so attractive to migrants, certainly more attractive than the half dozen or so countries they have already passed through.

So... what really?

People not having documentation isn't really any sort of evidence that they've chucked their passports into the channel now is it?

The Home Office bloke said:

I can’t give you an exact figure, but I can tell you that it is almost none—very, very close to none. Generally speaking, encouraged by the facilitators, they will get rid of any sort of documentation or pocket litter, as we call it in law enforcement—phones, SIM cards, anything—before they are intercepted by Border Force.

How each individual disposed of his documents is irrelevant, but given they probably needed them to get into France, a French litter bin or the Channel is the best bet.

The so what is these mostly young men will be savvy enough to know being off grid is like a licence to commit crime.

Many, many, crimes are solved by forensics, but even if the criminal leaves blood, dabs, and spit all over the crime scene, it is useless because there is nothing to match the forensics to.

Practically, if he can manage to commit the crime unobserved, the chances of detection are about as likely as a migrant arriving with a full set of documents.

 

[AndyRM]

Yes, I should have said 465 migrants in an unspecified number of boats, although I doubt anyone was misled.

Even 128 a day is a massive increase and still equates to thousands of new arrivals each month.

No system could cope well with such numbers, particularly as the jump up was so recent.



Practically, that's difficult, because what do you do with 300 undocumented migrants who are standing, sopping wet, on the pebbles in front of you?

I would insist on at least taking DNA, fingerprints, and a mugshot before any of them get anywhere near to contact with the public.

The problem is the government's fault, but only because they have made this country so attractive to migrants, certainly more attractive than the half dozen or so countries they have already passed through.



The Home Office bloke said:

I can’t give you an exact figure, but I can tell you that it is almost none—very, very close to none. Generally speaking, encouraged by the facilitators, they will get rid of any sort of documentation or pocket litter, as we call it in law enforcement—phones, SIM cards, anything—before they are intercepted by Border Force.

How each individual disposed of his documents is irrelevant, but given they probably needed them to get into France, a French litter bin or the Channel is the best bet.

The so what is these mostly young men will be savvy enough to know being off grid is like a licence to commit crime.

Many, many, crimes are solved by forensics, but even if the criminal leaves blood, dabs, and spit all over the crime scene, it is useless because there is nothing to match the forensics to.

Practically, if he can manage to commit the crime unobserved, the chances of detection are about as likely as a migrant arriving with a full set of documents.

Yeah. Migrants arriving here are clearly looking to set up criminal empires.

A Home Office bloke said? Good for him. That carries about as much weight as a balloon.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yeah. Migrants arriving here are clearly looking to set up criminal empires.

A Home Office bloke said? Good for him. That carries about as much weight as a balloon.

Typical, the message doesn't suit so set about undermining the messenger.

Good luck with that, doubt anyone can come up with a more reliable source than a Home Office executive - not an elected member - who has been tasked with preparing to answer questions at a select committee.

At the risk of taking the rest of your dumb post seriously, I don't believe the migrants would have much joy trying to set up an organised crime group, at least initially.

What they could easily do is contribute to the already high levels of relatively low level crime which already blights our communities and drags us all down.

In the unlikely event they decide to enter the criminal league at Premiership level, they are also well placed to commit a rape, murder, or armed robbery, particularly if they are masked.

No reliable witnesses/nothing to witness, no worries about forensics = no detection.

 

[matticus]

"nobody likes to hear this, but ... !"