War with Russia

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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
It may be difficult for some to admit, but they are no longer a remotely left, communist or socialist regime
It's you that keeps saying this though...where in reality it's the right wing that love him.He's a white authoritarian,anti LBGT,anti EU etc
Trump,Farage ?
Why do you think the left has support for him ?
 
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qigong chimp

Settler of gobby hash.
It may be difficult for some to admit, but they are no longer a remotely left, communist or socialist regime.

Well quite: they're just like us - crazed gangster capitalists protecting their interest through wars of aggression, not an ideological fag paper between us. So why don't we invite them into NATO and the EU?

We could even let Putin ride in the Queen's coach.
 
D

Deleted member 121

Guest
At risk of appearing to blame the victim, truth be told Zelensky is an idiot*.

But then what do you expect, given the coup and subsequent government formations were heavily steered by the US?

If you thought the Russian speaking Ukrainians in Donbas have been having a good time courtesy of the Ukrainian government, you might want to read this.

Despite over a month old, this is a good, reasonably even-handed take on the issues supported by plenty of info, and made excellent reasoned predictions (proven by events).

* think you agreed with me that Ukraine should have taken a neutral stance in geopolitics given their circumstances, and to focus on economic developments, so this point shouldn't be controversial?
Hmmm, But given Putin's reasons for invasion...

A, Denazification of Ukraine. Im sure the significance of the Ukrainian leader being Jewish is lost on Putin.
B, Ukraine is historically Russian.
C, Ukraine seek WMDs to threaten Russia.

How, is the information you provide pertinent? I understand the Donbas region and the seperatist war, but this is FAR FAR greater than that... It is clear, given Putin's grievances, neutrality in Ukraine would not have saved them...
 

FishFright

Well-Known Member
If you mean permanent invasions Russia is well ahead.

Because the West has acted badly does not justify upping the ante by Russia.

Straight question...do you think Russia's actions over Ukraine are justified?

It may be difficult for some to admit, but they are no longer a remotely left, communist or socialist regime.

Is piling into a country , wrecking it and than buggering off home worse or better than invading a country and governing it ?

The West's behavior , in Putin's eyes at least, is reason enough for Russia to play it's own internationals games too.

The definition Ukraine /Russia border was terribly mishandled after the fall of the USSR so this has been on the cards since then.

It's very easy for you to finish a post on new low. Quite a talent you have there.
 
D

Deleted member 121

Guest
Is piling into a country , wrecking it and than buggering off home worse or better than invading a country and governing it ?

The West's behavior , in Putin's eyes at least, is reason enough for Russia to play it's own internationals games too.

The definition Ukraine /Russia border was terribly mishandled after the fall of the USSR so this has been on the cards since then.

It's very easy for you to finish a post on new low. Quite a talent you have there.
May i ask what was mishandled? Ukraine voted overwhelmingly to be an independent state in 1991. Ukraine gave up its Nuclear weapons and Uranium enrichment, Much of its hardware mothballed and scrapped. Its Aircraft carrier sold to China. They laid down arms, in large because of the assurances laid upon them in the Budapest agreement as a NPT (non-nuclear weapon state) with a couple of points to note:

  • The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

  • The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

Im just curious then, rather than claim it was mishandled, what should/could have been done?
 
It's you that keeps saying this though...where in reality it's the right wing that love him.He's a white authoritarian,anti LBGT,anti EU etc
Trump,Farage ?
Why do you think the left has support for him ?
Lest we forget.

View: https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/status/1496856751383224320?s=21
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Is piling into a country , wrecking it and than buggering off home worse or better than invading a country and governing it ?

The West's behavior , in Putin's eyes at least, is reason enough for Russia to play it's own internationals games too.

The definition Ukraine /Russia border was terribly mishandled after the fall of the USSR so this has been on the cards since then.

It's very easy for you to finish a post on new low. Quite a talent you have there.
No answer though, about today's question.

I believe negative, old-fashioned and outdated ideology still colours many people's views on US/Russia or West/East. The world is no longer a choice between left or right, capitalism or socialism. Virtually all major countries are capitalist but some pretend not to be.

Russia is the aggressor and is wrong in this particular action and you cannot bring yourself to admit it.
 
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Rusty Nails

Country Member
It's you that keeps saying this though...where in reality it's the right wing that love him.He's a white authoritarian,anti LBGT,anti EU etc
Trump,Farage ?
Why do you think the left has support for him ?
Yeah, Trump and Farage are so typical of the right. They might be typical of RWNJs but they are outliers.

The left (or some of the more deluded) still support him because of the reasons I stated in my reply to Fishfright.

In this country the vast majority of people are too sensible to be either far right or far left and there is no evidence of people other than those polarised groups "supporting" him, whatever that means.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Yeah, Trump and Farage are so typical of the right. They might be typical of RWNJs but they are outliers.

The left (or some of the more deluded) still support him because of the reasons I stated in my reply to Fishfright.

In this country the vast majority of people are too sensible to be either far right or far left and there is no evidence of people other than those polarised groups "supporting" him, whatever that means.
Maybe it's you that has the thing with being far left or far right ?
He's a poster boy for the right !
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/02/24/conspiracy-and-paranoia-putins-far-right-cheerleaders/
I don't want to speak for fishfright but I'm not sure I've seen or read him supporting Putin,just putting a view across.
Far too sensible to be far left or far right deary me :rolleyes:
 

PaulB

Active Member
Here's some encouraging info posted to me by my IFA in relation to the current financial turbulence.

Markets have experienced a choppy start to 2022, with rising inflation and the prospect of rising interest rates at the top of investor concerns. That has clearly been joined and overtaken now by the rapid pace of developments in Ukraine. Events have been so fluid and with so much ebb and flow to markets that it has been a headache of late as to quite when to pen an update, but with markets moving lower today and the sobering scenes across our television screens, I thought it a prudent point to share my thinking and to provide some broader context to the situation.

After weeks of escalating tensions, the disturbing images coming from Ukraine were certainly alarming ones to awake to. Whilst it is potentially still very early in the conflict, longer term data indicates that markets recover their footing, sometimes quite rapidly, especially as the scope and scale of any fighting becomes clear. If we look to examples such as the Crimean annexation of 2014, investors experienced some volatility, but global equities soon resumed their upward trend as the crisis subsided. Going back further, global markets had a difficult time in the run up to the US-led invasion of Iraq, but bottomed about a week before the troops went in and spent the rest of the year going up steadily. Further back still, there was a big drop in stock markets during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990 when the oil price doubled, but markets soon stabilised afterwards. Clearly, all geopolitical events are different and this one is particularly serious, but we are confident that markets will bounce-back once tensions subside.

Additionally in this case, Ukraine is not a part of NATO so it seems unlikely at present that any NATO forces will be deployed to the country to come face to face with Russian troops; this would represent an escalation not seen even in the most tense moments of the Cold War. It therefore seems unlikely that there will be any military action outside of Ukraine's territory, but we are clearly at the hands of a leader where the ultimate intentions are unknown and worst case scenarios deeply uncomfortable.

At this point, it is difficult to predict final outcomes. However, over the coming weeks, the wider ramifications for markets will become clearer. Most obvious and already in evidence would seem to be a spike in energy prices due to the impact of western sanctions and potential disruption to pipelines and other infrastructure during the fighting. The flipside is that prices would likely fall sharply if the conflict abated. We are in the midst of companies reporting their fourth quarter 2021 results and the majority have beaten expectations so, as time passes and the initial geopolitical shock is digested, high quality businesses will shine again.

This is an uncomfortable time for investors and portfolios but, as the chart below highlights, volatility happens and markets do not just rise on a steadily upward trajectory. It is never advisable to sell down to cash in the midst of market turbulence, as has been seen over and over again in history and most recently in February and March 2020 when COVID-19 roiled markets, but then quickly rallied. So long as your time horizon has not changed and you do not need any funds in the near term, our advice is to ride this out. That is not to say our management is frozen – we have been and continue to think carefully about adjustments and any areas we need to refine our exposure to, portfolio by portfolio.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside


Isn't it possible to admire someone's achievements, without. necessarily agreeing with them?

For (personal) example, I admire Nicola Sturgeon, not because I agree with her views/objectives, but, I do admire what she has achieved.

Similarly, as a Remain voter, I very much disagree with, and, deplore Farage, but, he did achieve a tactical victory, despite being a total underdog.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Here's some encouraging info posted to me by my IFA in relation to the current financial turbulence.

Markets have experienced a choppy start to 2022, with rising inflation and the prospect of rising interest rates at the top of investor concerns. That has clearly been joined and overtaken now by the rapid pace of developments in Ukraine. Events have been so fluid and with so much ebb and flow to markets that it has been a headache of late as to quite when to pen an update, but with markets moving lower today and the sobering scenes across our television screens, I thought it a prudent point to share my thinking and to provide some broader context to the situation.

After weeks of escalating tensions, the disturbing images coming from Ukraine were certainly alarming ones to awake to. Whilst it is potentially still very early in the conflict, longer term data indicates that markets recover their footing, sometimes quite rapidly, especially as the scope and scale of any fighting becomes clear. If we look to examples such as the Crimean annexation of 2014, investors experienced some volatility, but global equities soon resumed their upward trend as the crisis subsided. Going back further, global markets had a difficult time in the run up to the US-led invasion of Iraq, but bottomed about a week before the troops went in and spent the rest of the year going up steadily. Further back still, there was a big drop in stock markets during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990 when the oil price doubled, but markets soon stabilised afterwards. Clearly, all geopolitical events are different and this one is particularly serious, but we are confident that markets will bounce-back once tensions subside.

Additionally in this case, Ukraine is not a part of NATO so it seems unlikely at present that any NATO forces will be deployed to the country to come face to face with Russian troops; this would represent an escalation not seen even in the most tense moments of the Cold War. It therefore seems unlikely that there will be any military action outside of Ukraine's territory, but we are clearly at the hands of a leader where the ultimate intentions are unknown and worst case scenarios deeply uncomfortable.

At this point, it is difficult to predict final outcomes. However, over the coming weeks, the wider ramifications for markets will become clearer. Most obvious and already in evidence would seem to be a spike in energy prices due to the impact of western sanctions and potential disruption to pipelines and other infrastructure during the fighting. The flipside is that prices would likely fall sharply if the conflict abated. We are in the midst of companies reporting their fourth quarter 2021 results and the majority have beaten expectations so, as time passes and the initial geopolitical shock is digested, high quality businesses will shine again.

This is an uncomfortable time for investors and portfolios but, as the chart below highlights, volatility happens and markets do not just rise on a steadily upward trajectory. It is never advisable to sell down to cash in the midst of market turbulence, as has been seen over and over again in history and most recently in February and March 2020 when COVID-19 roiled markets, but then quickly rallied. So long as your time horizon has not changed and you do not need any funds in the near term, our advice is to ride this out. That is not to say our management is frozen – we have been and continue to think carefully about adjustments and any areas we need to refine our exposure to, portfolio by portfolio.
 
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