War with Russia

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D

Deleted member 121

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Even if that would be the case makes that Putin any better? It just sounds what i toddler would say to me ''but they did it too'' I really don't care which country does it, it's wrong.


regarding ''nazification, it comes from 2014 and from Putin's friends in the seperatist/pro-russia part of Ukraine. They where beaten by the Azov Battalion, which has on logo that looks like nazi/waffen ss quote from wikipedia
''In 2014, the regiment gained notoriety after allegations emerged of torture and war crimes as well as neo-Nazi sympathies and usage of associated symbols by the regiment itself, as seen in their logo featuring the Wolfsangel, one of the original symbols used by the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich. Representatives of the Azov Battalion say that the symbol is an abbreviation for the slogan Ідея Нації (Ukrainian for "National Idea") and deny connection with Nazism.[11] In 2014, a spokesman for the regiment said around 10–20% of the unit were neo-Nazis.''
(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion )

So russia is effectively demanding the Ukrainian army to be dismantled, years after the claims where first made. Something like false flag comes to mind
Yes, i am aware of that group. But in other places i have argued that Russian Neo-Nazi groups are more widespread and a far bigger problem in Russia, Often targeting for systematic Abuse, Torture and Murdering of Homosexuals, Jews and Non-Whites. It is reported that over half of the worlds Neo-Nazi's reside in Russia with some claiming there are as many as 100,000 Neo-Nazi's living in Russia. So, long before they consider invading an entire country that is Ukraine on a crusade of targeting the few hundred or so elements of the Azov group, it should consider looking inwards at itself with the same resolve needed to invade a neighbouring country... But frankly, no one really buys this reasoning...
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
[Seven speed
I have a feeling that sanctions won't do a thing to stop him.
Fracking FFS....how close do you live to a fracking site ? If you think that's the answer were fecked !
Didn't say I support it, for all sorts of reasons, but am pragmatic/cynical enough to see it as a possibility to be pushed again if we don't have the guts to go all out for renewables.

The money we are spending on HS2 would have been better spent on renewables for the benefits it could give the country.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Look at Russia in Afghanistan. Gorilla tactics had them fleeing with all their might. Ukraine need ghost ops in there picking them all off in the cities.

An interesting thought, and they probably will try it, but Ukraine is not Afghanistan where the terrain helped guerrilla warfare rather than conventional forces. Cities have lots of hiding places but they also have lots of defenceless civilians.
 
Yes, i am aware of that group. But in other places i have argued that Russian Neo-Nazi groups are more widespread and a far bigger problem in Russia, Often targeting for systematic Abuse, Torture and Murdering of Homosexuals, Jews and Non-Whites. It is reported that over half of the worlds Neo-Nazi's reside in Russia with some claiming there are as many as 100,000 Neo-Nazi's living in Russia.
Ok then i have missed the post where you state that but 100.000 on population of 150+ million doesn't sound like a lot, but abuse, hatred etc. of homosexuals is something Putin himself did proudly not so long ago.
So, long before they consider invading an entire country that is Ukraine on a crusade of targeting the few hundred or so elements of the Azov group, it should consider looking inwards at itself with the same resolve needed to invade a neighbouring country... But frankly, no one really buys this reasoning...
Agreed although i don't believe for a second the invasion has anything to do with the reasons stated. More so with Ukraine's NATO aspirations and/or to feed the hunger for war Russia is feeding their soldiers with all those drills they have been doing.
 
It’s actually a good thing Russia used their veto to block it, China had the same option and abstained from using their veto.
Yes, it does sounds strange that the country the resolution is against, is able to veto'd said resolution
 

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
It's OK folks - I think they have cracked it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60530513

Putin's already practicing boom-bang-a-bang, he's going to have to withdraw now or all that rehearsal will be for nothing...

I understand the cynicism and the apparent insignificance of the gesture. However, Russia must be shunned and excluded at every level, militarily, economically, diplomatically and civically. Russia must be denied all forms of access to ease of financial transactions, movement of both their military and civilian aircraft through the airspace of other countries and their military and civilian ships denied access to other countries’ waters, ports and harbours.

Cancelling their participation in all music and sporting events will underline that Russia’s aggression will leave it and its citizens completely and utterly exiled from the rest of the world. They must be given pariah status.
 
Hmmm, But given Putin's reasons for invasion...

A, Denazification of Ukraine. Im sure the significance of the Ukrainian leader being Jewish is lost on Putin.
B, Ukraine is historically Russian.
C, Ukraine seek WMDs to threaten Russia.

How, is the information you provide pertinent? I understand the Donbas region and the seperatist war, but this is FAR FAR greater than that... It is clear, given Putin's grievances, neutrality in Ukraine would not have saved them...

Interesting argument of yours that. So a Jew can't associate with neo-nazis, just like Israel can't possibly be an apartheid regime, or can they?

I don't know what you read from Putin's grievances, but I read it as a near perfect parallel to the Cuban missile crisis, with the shoe on the other foot. The difference is Zelensky is stupid enough to want to be a NATO poodle if not member despite no one else is prepared to shed a single drop of blood for Ukraine, so Putin will simply replace him and his government, without us having to risk seeing WW3.

Russia will cosy up to China, but in reality, have been for quite some time. The $100bn, 30 year gas deal was done before the invasion and i would expect more energy, defence/defence equipment and technology co-operation deals with the two countries going forwards in light of current events. I would not be surprised if we see a NATO style alliance being formed with Russia and China being the main signatories along with aligned "satellite" states moving forward. A true rival to NATO and a truly frightening prospect to world peace and the future of humanity...

I don't know, in recent decades the unipolar world you have so much faith in has not delivered world peace or a hopeful future for humanity, has it?

Before you say you would rather that than having a "rival" without thinking, do you have any objective data showing that Putin and Xi have been worse for their people and the world overall? Or do you see change as a frightening prospect only because you are lucky enough to be a son of the West (which is only circa 12% of world population by the way), so finding it difficult to relate yourself to the many millions who are not, and who have suffered terribly due to the numerous military adventures of "the West"?

Worse, in this unipolar world the liberal democracy we have been trying to convert other countries to is not even working at home. If we won't dream of allowing surgeons or engineers to practice without deep knowledge and proven experience, what credibility can a political system possibly have when its leaders could be a reality show host, a failed journalist or a comedian apparently famous for playing a fictional president on Ukranian TV? Should we be surprised that they all failed their countries and the world miserably?

And as if that is not bad enough, even if our elected leader was not a 100% certified nutjob, the overwhelming need to be popular in the liberal democratic system, rather than being right, meant the system will ensure he/she is a lame duck at best - just look at Biden, who has now lost control of the Senate, and is fighting a losing battle trying to avoid losing both houses in Autumn, by keeping the very Trump policies he cursed before he was elected.

Inevitably, our media whether left or right leaning have also drank the unipolar kool-aid like you might have, and is painting the world in black and white. This is again driven by a system that only rewards the popular, and what can be more popular than saying we are the good guys, or more unpopular than presenting uncomfortable truths? Scarily this demonisation of comparatively far more peaceful growing foreign powers (N.B. without massive colonisation and slavery), and absence of telling their reasons and scale of achievements is now practically universal in the Anglophone West - it is called malignant psychological projection in human psychology, which says bullies demonise and bully others because of their own feeling of insecurity. When you next catch our political leaders or press (or yourself) calling Putin or Xi belligerent, bellicose thugs, while feeling perfectly normal and entitled to encircle or sail the world's most advanced military assets around their borders/shores, I invite you to reflect on this.

Will a multipolar world be better? I believe so, for many reasons, but they are likely off topic here. What is a certainty, is that we are at that threshold, if not there already, especially in the eyes of the other 88%. The Western hegemony is actually just a 200 year aberration in many thousands - it is more than unwise and shortsighted, for the Anglophone West to not setting a good example, for the growing powers, of how to behave.

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