War with Russia

[theclaud]

when the talking is fruitless and exhausted

Is it?

 

[FishFright]

I didn't say there was a way "plucky Britain" could get "victory", but, when the talking is fruitless and exhausted, and, we cornered, and, the choices are death or death, the decision making process is no longer logical (that is not to say current situation is "logical").

Have you forgot that the invention of the Hydrogen bomb has made war between the The US and Russia , we are mere bystanders , impossible ?
There is NO positive outcome possible with military intervention against Russia and especially Putin.

All you hawks really think if the West gets its' proverbial dick out Putin will be so impressed he'll shuffle back to silly little country with his tail between his legs ? I think you lot never got passed playground posturing and apply that same pathetic logic to the grown up world because that's all you truly understand.

Pathetic

 

[qigong chimp]

Isn't it disturbing to find how many people on here are getting a semi over a possible nuclear war.

Very concerning.
I blame the contraceptive pill run-off in our rivers.
As a virile vegan there's nothing half-mast about my trouser salute to the prospect of nuclear annihilation.

 

[qigong chimp]

Who here wants a nuclear war, or war if any kind? It's your warped thinking, nothing more....

Knock it off foodie, you're fooling no-one; regular posters here have long since had you fingered as the bastard offspring of Pol Pot and Sauron

 

[Rusty Nails]

It was nothing but a pure faux machismo fantasy.

You might want your friends and family dead but not all of us wish for oblivion .

I doubt that anyone on this thread wants that, although DGLITUK comes close at times.
Certainly FF has never said that he wishes for anything like that, but it seems that for some even mentioning an unpleasant possibility that they do not want is a crime In itself.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Meanwhile, outside the Western world, opinion seems to be rather different in S America, Africa, and Asia. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-on-the-ukraine-disagreement-outside-the-west

No surprises there then.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm sorry Foodster but this is verging on the unhinged. Not that that marks it out as unusual with the way discourse around the invasion is going.

No probs. Time will tell.
But I hope you're right....

 

[BoldonLad]

Is it?

Probably not at present, but, that point may be reached. I hope it doesn’t, but, if it does, then, difficult decisions will have to be made.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Have you forgot that the invention of the Hydrogen bomb has made war between the The US and Russia , we are mere bystanders , impossible ?
There is NO positive outcome possible with military intervention against Russia and especially Putin.

All you hawks really think if the West gets its' proverbial dick out Putin will be so impressed he'll shuffle back to silly little country with his tail between his legs ? I think you lot never got passed playground posturing and apply that same pathetic logic to the grown up world because that's all you truly understand.

Pathetic

The other side of the coin is that Putin continues mass murder until Ukraine is annihilated and the west once again goes 'oh well'....as with Syria, Salisbury, Litvinyenko, Crimea.

Emboldened by success Putin then moves on the Baltic states.
We'll then do nothing 'cos nukes....

 

[Fab Foodie]

How might a successful negotiated outcome look? What compromises do you think are acceptable for either side?
I'm not certain I can find any at the moment.

 

[icowden]

The other side of the coin is that Putin continues mass murder until Ukraine is annihilated and the west once again goes 'oh well'....as with Syria, Salisbury, Litvinyenko, Crimea.

Emboldened by success Putin then moves on the Baltic states.
We'll then do nothing 'cos nukes....

Personally I think our best hope is that some of the oligarchs get annoyed enough with having their assets confiscated that Putin meets with a little "accident".

 

[FishFright]

I doubt that anyone on this thread wants that, although DGLITUK comes close at times.
Certainly FF has never said that he wishes for anything like that, but it seems that for some even mentioning an unpleasant possibility that they do not want is a crime In itself.

Anyone rooting for war , and he certainly is, deserves ridicule. Especially those old enough to remember the terror of the Cold War.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Anyone rooting for war , and he certainly is, deserves ridicule. Especially those old enough to remember the terror of the Cold War.

Yet again (yawn).... Who is rooting for war?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Personally I think our best hope is that some of the oligarchs get annoyed enough with having their assets confiscated that Putin meets with a little "accident".

You apparently have no understanding of how those oligarchs work is not like in the west that they have much to say, if they go against Putin they are replaced. See for example the history if Yukos and it's former ''owner'' Mikhail Borisovich Khodorkovsky Russia is an mix between western based company ownership en sovjet area style those oligarchs just get jailed and their assets taken away when they oppose Putin.

 

[Rusty Nails]

There is NO positive outcome possible with military intervention against Russia and especially Putin.

All you hawks really think if the West gets its' proverbial dick out Putin will be so impressed he'll shuffle back to silly little country with his tail between his legs ? I think you lot never got passed playground posturing and apply that same pathetic logic to the grown up world because that's all you truly understand.

The first statement is undoubtedly true, and that is why there is no actual intervention against Russia, other than by the country they are trying to destroy.

As far as the second paragraph it just seems to be a continuation of the "West is wrong" rhetoric. No mention of Putin trying to impress the West by playground posturing and by getting his proverbial dick out first, which does tend to show he is impressed by shows of dickmanship.

There must be a continuation of talk and sanctions up until the point that Putin gets so emboldened by the military "success" of his war that he tries a similar thing with another one of his neighbours on some other self-defensive pretext, at which point appeasement may be seen not to be working and there will possibly need to be military action short of nuclear war. The clear danger in that is who knows if it will stop there.

Sanctions will work, up until a point, at which time China will bail Russia out by increasing support and trade to them to counteract the loss of trade with the West.

Let us get some things straight here... It is Russia who are the aggressors, using attacks on civilians, including hospitals, using siege tactics on cities, using cluster bombs and thermobaric bombs. But it seems sometimes as if, other than some weasel words about Putin as an individual being evil, it seems OK to blame the amorphous "west", despite no country of the west having attacked Russia, and there is no acceptance that something may be wrong with the way Russia goes about its activities or that their political systems have failed.

P.s. I happen to have lived through the Cold War and remember the real threat of nuclear war with the Cuban missile crisis and have no wish for me, my kids or my granddaughter to go through that again which is why talking must go on, with both sides actually listening and engaging.